The Diary

[Steven Russell]

Dear all,
Didn't the forgers of the Hitler diaries "artificially age" the documents by placing them in a low-heat oven for some time? I'm not sure if this is true but it is a fact that heat tends to speed up most chemical and physical processes.

If the diary had been subjected to such treatment, might that not compromise the results of e.g. ion migration tests and therefore provide a false estimate of when pen was put to paper?

I sincerely doubt if the laboratories and scientists involved would be so naive as to neglect this possibility but I would like to hear others' opinions.

Best wishes,

Steve.

P.S. Apologies if this has already been thrashed out.

[Natalie Severn]

Dear all,
Didn't the forgers of the Hitler diaries "artificially age" the documents by placing them in a low-heat oven for some time?

.....................

Best wishes,

Steve.

P.S. Apologies if this has already been thrashed out.

Steve,
A man named John Omlor did indeed "thrash" it--- and Caz----"out" for the most part of a thousand days --- occasionally joined by Chris Phillips.John disappeared --- suddenly and mysteriously .Chris still posts but under a different name!
Best of luck old chap!
Norma

[Steven Russell]

Dear Norma,
I have only been a member of this site for a few months and, though I thank you very much for your answer, I am having difficulty interpreting what it means. If you have the time, could you please elaborate?

Best wishes,

Steve.

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Steve,
Well you asked if the diary had been the subject of a discussion similar to the one you are having here about age of paper/ink/ authenticity etc and I was saying that yes ,these things had indeed been the subject of many lengthy and often quite acrimonious discussions between John Omlor,Caz and sometimes Chris Phillips.And I mean lengthy and I mean acrimonious.
I think John Omlor became totally frustrated because he could not get Caz to see things the way he thought they should be seen.Both could write very wittily and their posts were often great fun to read .But eventually things got a bit heated and then John hopped it and I rather think it was because Caz was the more tenacious! Chris,though very clever and knowledgeable, was simply not being witty or laid back enough to tackle the subject matter with enough panache!
Best
Norma

[Steven Russell]

Thanks again, Norma, for making all that much more clear to me. The more I see of this site, the more I realise that there is a definite soap opera quality to it.

Cheers,

Steve.

[Chris]

Chris,though very clever and knowledgeable, was simply not being witty or laid back enough to tackle the subject matter with enough panache!

Norma, you say the nicest things ...

[Natalie Severn]

Norma, you say the nicest things ...

Thanks ......well you did always stick to a more serious agenda Chris----whereas John eventually just became jokingly disputatious!

[Chris]

Thanks ......well you did always stick to a more serious agenda Chris----whereas John eventually just became jokingly disputatious!

That's me - humourless and uptight.

But I'm determined to turn over a new leaf. I've already embarked on an in-depth study of your posts on Aaron Kosminski, in an attempt to become more frivolous and light-hearted ...

[Natalie Severn]

The latest spin on Kosminski in the bin?

.......so Chris......are you saying everybody can look forward to a lot of fun on here------and heaps of laughter about ....er.......Aaron Kosminski !

[Chris]

.......so Chris......are you saying everybody can look forward to a lot of fun on here------and heaps of laughter about ....er.......Aaron Kosminski !

No - that wasn't what I meant at all. But never mind.

[The Grave Maurice]

It's late over there. You two should be in bed. But, probably, not together.

[Natalie Severn]

It's late over there. You two should be in bed. But, probably, not together.

I laughed out loud when I read this GM ! Yes,you could say Chris and I wouldnt make for the best of bed fellows!
But heck- Chris is an ace researcher and I have a huge regard for that!
Cheers
Norma

[Chris]

But heck- Chris is an ace researcher and I have a huge regard for that!

That's more like it! Flattery will get you everywhere ...

[Natalie Severn]

That's more like it! Flattery will get you everywhere ...

But its not flattery---seriously.

[caz]

Dear all,
Didn't the forgers of the Hitler diaries "artificially age" the documents by placing them in a low-heat oven for some time? I'm not sure if this is true but it is a fact that heat tends to speed up most chemical and physical processes.

If the diary had been subjected to such treatment, might that not compromise the results of e.g. ion migration tests and therefore provide a false estimate of when pen was put to paper?

I sincerely doubt if the laboratories and scientists involved would be so naive as to neglect this possibility but I would like to hear others' opinions.

Best wishes,

Steve.

P.S. Apologies if this has already been thrashed out.

Hi Steve,

Me too. I'm pretty sure that signs of heating would have been among others looked out for, by the various specialists who have examined the diary. In the wake of the Hitler diaries, lessons were learned about what should set the alarm bells ringing and what kind of fakery could be checked out.

All I know is that nobody has yet been able to demonstrate that this diary has been artificially aged in any way. That goes for the watch scratches too. But now we don't have anyone regularly batting for the other side I see it as my job to point out that until someone proves otherwise, both artefacts could have been aged in ways that have thus far defied detection by a growing number of experts in a variety of fields, including paper, ink, bookbinding and metallurgy.

Whether the 'finders' of either the watch or the diary could reasonably have expected to carry that off and escape with their liberty - again, in the wake of the quickly demolished Hitler diaries, which put their creator in prison - is another matter.

Love,

Caz
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