Acquiring A Victorian Diary

[Mike J. G.]

Please post more.

I intend to.

[Mike J. G.]

Mike JG,

I don't know why you feel the need to write your posts like they're a script for Chubby Brown. There are more theories about the origins of the Diary than just yours, dear boy. And as for mine, I could never be convinced in a thousand years that the Barretts conceived it and wrote it. No way.

Graham

Mate, I don't even know what that's supposed to mean, seeing as Chubby Brown would have no use for a script, being a stand-up comedian and not a television or film actor, but putting your silliness aside for a moment, I type how I want to type, either deal with it or ignore it, innit.

As for the theories you're mentioning, delve into them, that's what this thread is for, isn't it? Or are y'all just here to circle jerk over Ike's brain farts?

There is no evidence for the diary having been written by anyone other than the Barretts, that's what some of you seem to be ignoring.

So far, the evidence for it having been written by James? Zero. Unless he's gifted in having completely different types of written hand, which is frankly ridiculous, and there's bugger-all to suggest he did. You don't just begin writing in completely different style, no matter how "mad" you become, there are tell-tall signs that anyone dealing with such science would easily detect.


The evidence for it having been written by Michael? Zero, absolutely naught point naught pence, mate.

So who else is there?

Clive Barker? Charles Lechmere? Hitler's missing testicle?

[Graham]

he admitted he forged it and he tried to buy a victorian diary with blank pages. thats really all anyone needs to know

,

...and also said repeatedly that he didn't forge it.

Graham

[Abby Normal]

the evidence is the provinence starts and ends with barrett, he admitted he forged it and he tried to buy a victorian diary with blank pages. thats really all anyone needs to know, but theres also a boatload of other circumstantial evidence that should put this, as kattrup put it best- silly diary- to rest.

[Graham]

Yes where is the evidence that the diary is genuine?

Yes, and where is the evidence that the Barretts definitely and absolutely conceived and wrote it??? Every time Michael of that ilk was asked such a question he gave a different answer, probably depending upon who was talking to him. He never proved anything whatsoever, one way or the other, except that he was a master of confabulation. And as Anne seems to have disappeared, we'll probably never know the truth. And anyway, if she told 'the truth' whilst wired-up to a lie-detector, who would believe her?

[John Wheat]

Hi!

Which piece of empirical evidence do you believe best makes your argument to the Diary's authenticity? I would like to look closely at one really strong argument and see how the doubters deal with it/avoid it. Only one point; I would like to try to look at the general argument in microcosm.

Yes where is the evidence that the diary is genuine?

[APerno]

Yes, please post more. With every syllable you type, you put your argument so much further away from the world the rest of us occupy. Na noo na noo.

Looks to me as though the pubs of Liverpool have stayed open especially late today.

Hi!

Which piece of empirical evidence do you believe best makes your argument to the Diary's authenticity? I would like to look closely at one really strong argument and see how the doubters deal with it/avoid it. Only one point; I would like to try to look at the general argument in microcosm.

[Iconoclast]

Are we referring to Michael Maybrick here? As I said earlier, there's more chance of the diary being written by Maybrick's neighbour's best mate Terry's step-son and his dog, Norris.

As far as I can see, there's basically no evidence for it being written by anyone else, and a whole lot of circumstantial evidence that the Barrett's were more than likely involved to some degree or other, either entirely or with another party, but personally, I think it was more likely to be both of them and nobody else.

It's not all that hard to connect the dots, Orsam did it quite well, more than I'd even think would be necessary, but apparently some people on here are so utterly fooled by the diary that connecting those dots has become more difficult with each nonsense book published by certain people who think things like, say, Michael Maybrick having written the diary is an even more plausible notion than the Barretts having written it, which frankly, is hilarious.

What was Mike's Maybrick's motive for penning a piece of nonsense fiction such as the diary? Shits and giggles?

Y'all act like Mike Barrett would need to be a savvy genius to have put pen to paper in the diary... meanwhile he spent his time apparently obtaining similar Victorian-era books to doodle in, coincidences, eh?! The person who wrote the "diary" was no more of a genius than Bono is an artist, or Morrissey is a poet, lol.

I swear, this is little more than a conspiracy thread at this point, full of nonsense ideas and pure conjecture. Mike and Anne were obviously two thick to fool anyone here, probably, maybe...

But hey, why focus on the strings, and the person pulling them, when you can focus on the puppet...? Watch the funny little puppet dance!

Yes, please post more. With every syllable you type, you put your argument so much further away from the world the rest of us occupy. Na noo na noo.

Looks to me as though the pubs of Liverpool have stayed open especially late today.

[Harry D]

Are we referring to Michael Maybrick here? As I said earlier, there's more chance of the diary being written by Maybrick's neighbour's best mate Terry's step-son and his dog, Norris.

As far as I can see, there's basically no evidence for it being written by anyone else, and a whole lot of circumstantial evidence that the Barrett's were more than likely involved to some degree or other, either entirely or with another party, but personally, I think it was more likely to be both of them and nobody else.

It's not all that hard to connect the dots, Orsam did it quite well, more than I'd even think would be necessary, but apparently some people on here are so utterly fooled by the diary that connecting those dots has become more difficult with each nonsense book published by certain people who think things like, say, Michael Maybrick having written the diary is an even more plausible notion than the Barretts having written it, which frankly, is hilarious.

What was Mike's Maybrick's motive for penning a piece of nonsense fiction such as the diary? Shits and giggles?

Y'all act like Mike Barrett would need to be a savvy genius to have put pen to paper in the diary... meanwhile he spent his time apparently obtaining similar Victorian-era books to doodle in, coincidences, eh?! The person who wrote the "diary" was no more of a genius than Bono is an artist, or Morrissey is a poet, lol.

I swear, this is little more than a conspiracy thread at this point, full of nonsense ideas and pure conjecture. Mike and Anne were obviously two thick to fool anyone here, probably, maybe...

But hey, why focus on the strings, and the person pulling them, when you can focus on the puppet...? Watch the funny little puppet dance!

Please post more.

[Graham]

Mike JG,

I don't know why you feel the need to write your posts like they're a script for Chubby Brown. There are more theories about the origins of the Diary than just yours, dear boy. And as for mine, I could never be convinced in a thousand years that the Barretts conceived it and wrote it. No way.

Graham

[Mike J. G.]

How about a playwright, an actor and a musician?

Are we referring to Michael Maybrick here? As I said earlier, there's more chance of the diary being written by Maybrick's neighbour's best mate Terry's step-son and his dog, Norris.

As far as I can see, there's basically no evidence for it being written by anyone else, and a whole lot of circumstantial evidence that the Barrett's were more than likely involved to some degree or other, either entirely or with another party, but personally, I think it was more likely to be both of them and nobody else.

It's not all that hard to connect the dots, Orsam did it quite well, more than I'd even think would be necessary, but apparently some people on here are so utterly fooled by the diary that connecting those dots has become more difficult with each nonsense book published by certain people who think things like, say, Michael Maybrick having written the diary is an even more plausible notion than the Barretts having written it, which frankly, is hilarious.

What was Mike's Maybrick's motive for penning a piece of nonsense fiction such as the diary? Shits and giggles?

Y'all act like Mike Barrett would need to be a savvy genius to have put pen to paper in the diary... meanwhile he spent his time apparently obtaining similar Victorian-era books to doodle in, coincidences, eh?! The person who wrote the "diary" was no more of a genius than Bono is an artist, or Morrissey is a poet, lol.

I swear, this is little more than a conspiracy thread at this point, full of nonsense ideas and pure conjecture. Mike and Anne were obviously two thick to fool anyone here, probably, maybe...

But hey, why focus on the strings, and the person pulling them, when you can focus on the puppet...? Watch the funny little puppet dance!

[Scott Nelson]

If you were looking at this as a case, how can you satisfactorily eliminate the Barretts and offer no other tangible, credible suspect in their place? Ripperworld, innit.

How about a playwright, an actor and a musician?

[Mike J. G.]

(Five minutes later)

Scientist: Oh, a diary? There must have been a misunderstanding. You've got through to the School of Tropical Medicine, I'm afraid. I specialise in diarrhoea.

(Pause)

P&R Bloke #1: OK. Anything you can tell us about muck middens?

It's a wacky comedy of errors, mate! I myself have made the mistake of contacting the Sports Science department of the Liverpool University to inquire about who put the "e" in Poste House.

[Mike J. G.]

Thanks Harry.

I've just finished re-reading Shirley Harrison's book (Blake edition) for the first time in however many years, and it's reinforced my feeling that the Diary was (a) never produced in any way, shape or form by the Barretts; (b) was not filched out of Battlecrease by the electricians, which is reinforced by J Menges' Post 1811, quoting from Shirley's book. At this stage - and bear in mind that my interest in the entire Ripper saga is simply that of a casual and interested observer - I haven't quite got my head round just how the Diary did get to the Barratts. Anne's story of its being passed to her by Billy Graham is, I feel, not at all implausible, but to me at any rate doesn't at this stage strike me as totally watertight and concrete. And as to whether the thing was truly written by James Maybrick, I can't feel totally convinced that it was. However, if it wasn't, then my gut feeling - and I have a big gut - is that it must have been composed by someone close to him and to the family. Time, as someone once observed, will reveal all; or so it's said.

Graham

I've no idea what people see in the diary to make them think it was even penned by Maybrick's neighbour's best mate Terry's step-son.

The book was obviously written by someone who more than likely had a few Ramsey Campbell and Clive Barker novels on their coffee table next to the Whittington-Egan books concerning local history and, surprise surprise, Jack the Ripper.

It's a glaring work of fantasy-fiction, trying to make folly out of fact, like a Dan Brown paperback.

It genuinely amazes me how people can fall for it, hook, line and sinker, but then again, people are often thrilled by nonsense, which is why Derek Ackora made a decent living in the world of "ghost-hunting", innit?

It doesn't even read like a piece written in the 19th century, but a piece written by someone in the 20th century trying to convince people it's a 19th century tome.

Hey, wouldn't it be great if we could neatly tie up all of the loose ends of the Ripper in a tell-all tale of romance, deceit, horror, and lunacy, y'know, all the common traits of a 19th century gothic novel, and pin it on this random bloke what done sold cotton about the place and was offed by his missus?

All we were missing was a scene in which Maybrick stood bathed in moonlight from a window at his mansion, holding a skull and lamenting: alas, poor Yorick!

Whether you believe Barrett wrote it or not, him and Anne were definitely involved somehow, it wasn't just written by a phantom, and there's enough circumstantial evidence to suggest the Barretts were indeed involved versus absolutely bugger-all in the way of evidence to suggest it was written by Jimmy Two-Hands. With literally no other suspects, you're left with the Barretts, who have weaved so much yarn that I'm surprised anyone could discount them as having written it or had some involvement in doing so.

If you were looking at this as a case, how can you satisfactorily eliminate the Barretts and offer no other tangible, credible suspect in their place? Ripperworld, innit.

[Sam Flynn]

Liverpool University Receptionist: A diary? Sounds interesting! We've actually got a professor on standby for calls such as this, hold on, please.

*Generic scientist in a lab coat, studying vials of brightly coloured liquid picks up phone*

(Five minutes later)

Scientist: Oh, a diary? There must have been a misunderstanding. You've got through to the School of Tropical Medicine, I'm afraid. I specialise in diarrhoea.

(Pause)

P&R Bloke #1: OK. Anything you can tell us about muck middens?