Acquiring A Victorian Diary

[APerno]

Yes, please post more. With every syllable you type, you put your argument so much further away from the world the rest of us occupy. Na noo na noo.

Looks to me as though the pubs of Liverpool have stayed open especially late today.

Hi!

Which piece of empirical evidence do you believe best makes your argument to the Diary's authenticity? I would like to look closely at one really strong argument and see how the doubters deal with it/avoid it. Only one point; I would like to try to look at the general argument in microcosm.

[Iconoclast]

Are we referring to Michael Maybrick here? As I said earlier, there's more chance of the diary being written by Maybrick's neighbour's best mate Terry's step-son and his dog, Norris.

As far as I can see, there's basically no evidence for it being written by anyone else, and a whole lot of circumstantial evidence that the Barrett's were more than likely involved to some degree or other, either entirely or with another party, but personally, I think it was more likely to be both of them and nobody else.

It's not all that hard to connect the dots, Orsam did it quite well, more than I'd even think would be necessary, but apparently some people on here are so utterly fooled by the diary that connecting those dots has become more difficult with each nonsense book published by certain people who think things like, say, Michael Maybrick having written the diary is an even more plausible notion than the Barretts having written it, which frankly, is hilarious.

What was Mike's Maybrick's motive for penning a piece of nonsense fiction such as the diary? Shits and giggles?

Y'all act like Mike Barrett would need to be a savvy genius to have put pen to paper in the diary... meanwhile he spent his time apparently obtaining similar Victorian-era books to doodle in, coincidences, eh?! The person who wrote the "diary" was no more of a genius than Bono is an artist, or Morrissey is a poet, lol.

I swear, this is little more than a conspiracy thread at this point, full of nonsense ideas and pure conjecture. Mike and Anne were obviously two thick to fool anyone here, probably, maybe...

But hey, why focus on the strings, and the person pulling them, when you can focus on the puppet...? Watch the funny little puppet dance!

Yes, please post more. With every syllable you type, you put your argument so much further away from the world the rest of us occupy. Na noo na noo.

Looks to me as though the pubs of Liverpool have stayed open especially late today.

[Harry D]

Are we referring to Michael Maybrick here? As I said earlier, there's more chance of the diary being written by Maybrick's neighbour's best mate Terry's step-son and his dog, Norris.

As far as I can see, there's basically no evidence for it being written by anyone else, and a whole lot of circumstantial evidence that the Barrett's were more than likely involved to some degree or other, either entirely or with another party, but personally, I think it was more likely to be both of them and nobody else.

It's not all that hard to connect the dots, Orsam did it quite well, more than I'd even think would be necessary, but apparently some people on here are so utterly fooled by the diary that connecting those dots has become more difficult with each nonsense book published by certain people who think things like, say, Michael Maybrick having written the diary is an even more plausible notion than the Barretts having written it, which frankly, is hilarious.

What was Mike's Maybrick's motive for penning a piece of nonsense fiction such as the diary? Shits and giggles?

Y'all act like Mike Barrett would need to be a savvy genius to have put pen to paper in the diary... meanwhile he spent his time apparently obtaining similar Victorian-era books to doodle in, coincidences, eh?! The person who wrote the "diary" was no more of a genius than Bono is an artist, or Morrissey is a poet, lol.

I swear, this is little more than a conspiracy thread at this point, full of nonsense ideas and pure conjecture. Mike and Anne were obviously two thick to fool anyone here, probably, maybe...

But hey, why focus on the strings, and the person pulling them, when you can focus on the puppet...? Watch the funny little puppet dance!

Please post more.

[Graham]

Mike JG,

I don't know why you feel the need to write your posts like they're a script for Chubby Brown. There are more theories about the origins of the Diary than just yours, dear boy. And as for mine, I could never be convinced in a thousand years that the Barretts conceived it and wrote it. No way.

Graham

[Mike J. G.]

How about a playwright, an actor and a musician?

Are we referring to Michael Maybrick here? As I said earlier, there's more chance of the diary being written by Maybrick's neighbour's best mate Terry's step-son and his dog, Norris.

As far as I can see, there's basically no evidence for it being written by anyone else, and a whole lot of circumstantial evidence that the Barrett's were more than likely involved to some degree or other, either entirely or with another party, but personally, I think it was more likely to be both of them and nobody else.

It's not all that hard to connect the dots, Orsam did it quite well, more than I'd even think would be necessary, but apparently some people on here are so utterly fooled by the diary that connecting those dots has become more difficult with each nonsense book published by certain people who think things like, say, Michael Maybrick having written the diary is an even more plausible notion than the Barretts having written it, which frankly, is hilarious.

What was Mike's Maybrick's motive for penning a piece of nonsense fiction such as the diary? Shits and giggles?

Y'all act like Mike Barrett would need to be a savvy genius to have put pen to paper in the diary... meanwhile he spent his time apparently obtaining similar Victorian-era books to doodle in, coincidences, eh?! The person who wrote the "diary" was no more of a genius than Bono is an artist, or Morrissey is a poet, lol.

I swear, this is little more than a conspiracy thread at this point, full of nonsense ideas and pure conjecture. Mike and Anne were obviously two thick to fool anyone here, probably, maybe...

But hey, why focus on the strings, and the person pulling them, when you can focus on the puppet...? Watch the funny little puppet dance!

[Scott Nelson]

If you were looking at this as a case, how can you satisfactorily eliminate the Barretts and offer no other tangible, credible suspect in their place? Ripperworld, innit.

How about a playwright, an actor and a musician?

[Mike J. G.]

(Five minutes later)

Scientist: Oh, a diary? There must have been a misunderstanding. You've got through to the School of Tropical Medicine, I'm afraid. I specialise in diarrhoea.

(Pause)

P&R Bloke #1: OK. Anything you can tell us about muck middens?

It's a wacky comedy of errors, mate! I myself have made the mistake of contacting the Sports Science department of the Liverpool University to inquire about who put the "e" in Poste House.

[Mike J. G.]

Thanks Harry.

I've just finished re-reading Shirley Harrison's book (Blake edition) for the first time in however many years, and it's reinforced my feeling that the Diary was (a) never produced in any way, shape or form by the Barretts; (b) was not filched out of Battlecrease by the electricians, which is reinforced by J Menges' Post 1811, quoting from Shirley's book. At this stage - and bear in mind that my interest in the entire Ripper saga is simply that of a casual and interested observer - I haven't quite got my head round just how the Diary did get to the Barratts. Anne's story of its being passed to her by Billy Graham is, I feel, not at all implausible, but to me at any rate doesn't at this stage strike me as totally watertight and concrete. And as to whether the thing was truly written by James Maybrick, I can't feel totally convinced that it was. However, if it wasn't, then my gut feeling - and I have a big gut - is that it must have been composed by someone close to him and to the family. Time, as someone once observed, will reveal all; or so it's said.

Graham

I've no idea what people see in the diary to make them think it was even penned by Maybrick's neighbour's best mate Terry's step-son.

The book was obviously written by someone who more than likely had a few Ramsey Campbell and Clive Barker novels on their coffee table next to the Whittington-Egan books concerning local history and, surprise surprise, Jack the Ripper.

It's a glaring work of fantasy-fiction, trying to make folly out of fact, like a Dan Brown paperback.

It genuinely amazes me how people can fall for it, hook, line and sinker, but then again, people are often thrilled by nonsense, which is why Derek Ackora made a decent living in the world of "ghost-hunting", innit?

It doesn't even read like a piece written in the 19th century, but a piece written by someone in the 20th century trying to convince people it's a 19th century tome.

Hey, wouldn't it be great if we could neatly tie up all of the loose ends of the Ripper in a tell-all tale of romance, deceit, horror, and lunacy, y'know, all the common traits of a 19th century gothic novel, and pin it on this random bloke what done sold cotton about the place and was offed by his missus?

All we were missing was a scene in which Maybrick stood bathed in moonlight from a window at his mansion, holding a skull and lamenting: alas, poor Yorick!

Whether you believe Barrett wrote it or not, him and Anne were definitely involved somehow, it wasn't just written by a phantom, and there's enough circumstantial evidence to suggest the Barretts were indeed involved versus absolutely bugger-all in the way of evidence to suggest it was written by Jimmy Two-Hands. With literally no other suspects, you're left with the Barretts, who have weaved so much yarn that I'm surprised anyone could discount them as having written it or had some involvement in doing so.

If you were looking at this as a case, how can you satisfactorily eliminate the Barretts and offer no other tangible, credible suspect in their place? Ripperworld, innit.

[Sam Flynn]

Liverpool University Receptionist: A diary? Sounds interesting! We've actually got a professor on standby for calls such as this, hold on, please.

*Generic scientist in a lab coat, studying vials of brightly coloured liquid picks up phone*

(Five minutes later)

Scientist: Oh, a diary? There must have been a misunderstanding. You've got through to the School of Tropical Medicine, I'm afraid. I specialise in diarrhoea.

(Pause)

P&R Bloke #1: OK. Anything you can tell us about muck middens?

[Mike J. G.]

Hi Yabs,

Personally, I don't know the answer to this, although I am sure I am right in saying that domestic electricity was available in the late Victorian period. To be honest, it's not something I give a lot a thought to (as I don't believe the scrapbook came from under the floorboards of Battlecrease House - I believe, rather, that a servant girl found it in Battlecrease House in 1889 after James Maybrick's death, literally laundered it via Elizabeth Formby's laundry, leaving it for Elizabeth to give to her daughter Edith who passed it to her stepson Billy Graham, who gave it to his daughter Anne Graham, who foolishly - thank God! - gave it to Tony Devereux, who gave it to his mate Bongo Barrett, husband of Anne Graham and erstwhile master-forger and world's greatest ever undiscovered actor, who gave it to the world).

Hope this helps.

Ike

Okay, I've changed my mind, Ike, there's sod-all in the way of hope for you!

[Mike J. G.]

I don't think the artefact taken to Liverpool University was ever verified satisfactorily - it may not even have happened at all.

Ike, there may be some hope for you yet, mate.

[Mike J. G.]

I wonder if anyone has yet managed to figure out what went on when the blokes from Portus and Rhodes found the diary. They apparently just randomly decided to ring the Liverpool university, though it's never, to my knowledge, been revealed which department they even rang. Putting aside the fact that there is more than one branch of said university in town, how did they settle on who they should be contacting? Did they mistakenly contact the School of Tropical Medicine first? Who knows, who even cares, apparently?!

I'd like to envision that it all went a little something like this:

P&R Bloke #1: Mate, I've only gone and found a diary, innit?

P&R Bloke # 2: Really, mate? Whose diary?

P&R Bloke #1: Dunno, lad, but it says stuff like tin match-box empty, and he goes on about havin' a jar in the Poste House in town.

P&R Bloke #2: the oldest pub in Liverpool that was known as the Muck Midden in 1888?

P&R Bloke #1: Nah, although I can see why you'd think that, because most Scouser's seem to get those two pubs confused, mate. He can't have meant the Poste House, even though he wrote it exactly like that, even with the "e".

P&R Bloke #2: Ah, right, interesting stuff that, mate. Who you gonna call?

P&R Bloke #1: *shrugs* Dunno, I'll dial this number I just pulled out of my arse for the Liverpool University in town.

P&R Bloke #2: Which campus, building or department are you gonna contact, mate?

P&R Bloke #1: *shrugs* The Liverpool University.

P&R Bloke #2: Ah, right, that one.

P&R Bloke #1: *dials phone from unknown phone-box.* Hello? Is this the Liverpool University?

Liverpool University Receptionist: Hello, you've reached the Liverpool University, how may I be of assistance?

P&R Bloke #1: Erm, hello, what it is, like, is me and my mate are doing work in Battlecreese house, and we found a diary.

Liverpool University Receptionist: A diary? Sounds interesting! We've actually got a professor on standby for calls such as this, hold on, please.

*Generic scientist in a lab coat, studying vials of brightly coloured liquid picks up phone*

...

Am I close? Thought so.

[Mike J. G.]

I did manage to honour my commitment to attend Ricky Cobb’s Liverpool Diary Conference and panel discussion in October 2017 where I fully expected to be challenged with hostile questions. (Unfortunately, the gentleman who had been so vociferous and forthright on the Message Boards decided he had to leave early.)KS

You're right, mate, I was brimming with such Maybrick-style Jekyll and Hyde rage that I was doing press-ups outside the hotel before entering, that's just how this subject makes me feel; violent, like James Maybe storming the London streets during the Autumn of Error.

Genuinely, though, I'm sorry if I made you up your ant-acid tablets, I would've just casually asked you a few of the questions I was asking on here, there'd have been no hostility, mainly because I'm not mental, unlike some of the people who choose to believe that the diary was actually written by James bloody Maybrick, and that James bloody Maybrick was Jack the sodding Ripper!

In all fairness, y'all waffled on a bit and it got boring, so I decided I couldn't be arsed hanging about! I was hoping I'd see some of Sir Jim's keen, wry humour on display in the speakers.

If you do happen to visit Liverpool soon, though, by all means, I'd love to have a pint and a natter with you about it. We could even visit the Poste House, but just be sure to get the right one, as there's apparently a load of pubs in town baring that name, but don't ask anyone from this city for directions, cos they'll send you to the actual pub known as the Poste House, and really, you may actually want to go to the Old Post Office on School lane. It's easy to confuse those two, said nobody from Liverpool.

I'm impressed that Ike has kept this thread alive, tbh, like Roy Chubby Brown taking his brand of stale, beaten-to-death humour around the bingo halls of the UK, this topic has taken it's lumps and bumps, yet here it is, still laboriously peddling its tired bicycle off the beaten track of common-sense and into the wilds of pure fantasy, where belief is suspended, like Roy Chubby Brown's pants, by a fading thread of boredom.

[APerno]

Hi Aperno,

Would Abberline have been sent back to H Division had Arnold and Reid not been on vacation?

Regards,

Simon

Don't ask me, tell me! My post was in the form of a question because what you suggested seemed to go against the JTR CW I often hear, so I thought you could enlighten me with more insight. (No sarcasm.)

[Simon Wood]

Hi Aperno,

Would Abberline have been sent back to H Division had Arnold and Reid not been on vacation?

Regards,

Simon