Lets get Lechmere off the hook!

[Pcdunn]

How does the Double Event fit the ‘schedule’?

If I recall, the argument was Lechmere/Cross murdered either before his work shifts OR on weekends or holidays.

[John Wheat]

If I recall, the argument was Lechmere/Cross murdered either before his work shifts OR on weekends or holidays.

Ridiculous argument. But that is par for the course with the Lechmereians.

[Fiver]

So we have Lechmere, a man who was spotted alone, in the dark, near a still bleeding possibly still grasping for breath murdered woman.

And against Lechmere we have a sworn evidence from a police officer that Lechmere lied to him as he was walking away from the murder scene.

Those are undisputed facts, and we can safely say in the Nichols case we have our prime suspect.


The Baron

Cross was spotted alone. How is this more suspicious than Crow, Reeves, Neil, Davis, Diemschutz, Watkin, or Bowyer, who were alone near the bodies and completely unobserved.

All of the victims were found in the dark, so what is your point?

Based on the bleeding, we can conclude that Nichols was probably killed sometime between 3:15am and 3:45am. If people bled out as fast as Fisherman claims, then Nichols was killed by PC Neil.

Nichols was not gasping for breath. Robert Paul "knelt down to see if he could hear her breathe, but could not, and he thought she was dead." Paul also said "I laid hold of her wrist and found that she was dead and the hands cold." And "I had told him [PC Mizen] the woman was dead.The woman was so cold that she must have been dead some time."

You also repeat the myth of it being Mizen versus Cross. Inconveniently for you, we have the words or Robert Paul:

"He [PC Mizen] continued calling the people up, which I thought was a great shame, after I had told him the woman was dead."

The conflict was between Paul and Mizen before Charles Cross even testified. Cross backed Paul's story. The police clearly took the words of Paul and Cross over the words of PC Mizen. And that doesn't mean Mizen was lying, either, it could easily be explained by a misunderstanding.

[Fiver]

There are now a number of competing Lechmere theorists, and their ideas don't always agree, and since most of them are banned from this site, we are largely or entirely arguing with ghosts who cannot respond or clarify their positions, and thus things get muddled.

Even before them, Lechmerians virtually never responded to holes in their theories or clarified their positions.

[Fiver]

Evidence, of course not. But as a person of suspicion can he be eliminated? I don't think he can be eliminated as the killer of Nichols. As to being Jack the Ripper, I think the time of death of Chapman based on three witnesses makes it impossible Lechmere is Jack.

Agreed. And the timing of the Stride and Eddowes murders make it wildly unlikely that Cross was the Ripper.

[Fiver]

Everything we know about Cross points to him being innocent of murdering anyone. I don't understand why there is all this talk of Cross. When there is a suspects who could quite easily have been the Ripper eg Bury. Who generally gets dismissed more easily than Cross.

Well, there is a lack of people flogging books and Youtube channels about Bury being the Ripper. Not all Lechmerians are profiting from keeping him as a suspect, but the most vocal ones are/

[John Wheat]

Well, there is a lack of people flogging books and Youtube channels about Bury being the Ripper. Not all Lechmerians are profiting from keeping him as a suspect, but the most vocal ones are/

All fair points Fiver.

Cheers John

[Herlock Sholmes]

We’ve probably considered ever relevant point on the Bucks Row murder but it doesn’t stop us thinking about it though and last night I thought of a minor point to mention for what it’s worth.

As the suggestion appears to be that Cross just ran into Polly and decided on the spot to kill her (or why would he have met her elsewhere and then took her to Bucks Row at such a time that was so close to his being due at work with walking still to do) so would he really have been carrying with him the type of knife that was required to commit the murder? People carried knives of course for everyday use, work etc, but Llewellyn’s described a long bladed knife. A bit strange to be carrying this type of knife? I’d have thought this likelier to have been carried by someone that set out intending to kill?

[GBinOz]

We’ve probably considered ever relevant point on the Bucks Row murder but it doesn’t stop us thinking about it though and last night I thought of a minor point to mention for what it’s worth.

As the suggestion appears to be that Cross just ran into Polly and decided on the spot to kill her (or why would he have met her elsewhere and then took her to Bucks Row at such a time that was so close to his being due at work with walking still to do) so would he really have been carrying with him the type of knife that was required to commit the murder? People carried knives of course for everyday use, work etc, but Llewellyn’s described a long bladed knife. A bit strange to be carrying this type of knife? I’d have thought this likelier to have been carried by someone that set out intending to kill?

Hi Herlock,

An interesting question. Did Jack select his kill nights on the basis of some ritual or religious conviction (that might explain the double event), or was he an opportunist that carried the knife in case an opportunity presented itself. If Cross is under consideration I think that the only way he ran into Polly in Bucks Row was if she was rough sleeping. Otherwise I think he would have picked her up in Whitechapel Road, having left home earlier than required for his walk to work. Did Cross ever say that he started work every morning at 4AM? Might his start time have varied on an "as required" basis? We can't know, but the walking to work makes a good cover story.

Cheers, George

[Geddy2112]

Hi Herlock,

An interesting question. Did Jack select his kill nights on the basis of some ritual or religious conviction (that might explain the double event), or was he an opportunist that carried the knife in case an opportunity presented itself. If Cross is under consideration I think that the only way he ran into Polly in Bucks Row was if she was rough sleeping. Otherwise I think he would have picked her up in Whitechapel Road, having left home earlier than required for his walk to work. Did Cross ever say that he started work every morning at 4AM? Might his start time have varied on an "as required" basis? We can't know, but the walking to work makes a good cover story.

Cheers, George

Apparently Bucks Row was a place the women took their clients. I've not seen any mention of this from the residents. However if it was the case would it be possible she had just entertained a client before Cross (or the real killer) made an entrance?

[The Baron]

Did Cross ever say that he started work every morning at 4AM? Might his start time have varied on an "as required" basis? We can't know, but the walking to work makes a good cover story.

And here we see how even the shaky possibility that Chapman might have been killed at later time than expected doesn't in any way, form, or shape distract from the Lechmere theory.

And if Lechmere and Paul shared the same route to work same time every day, then why is it, of all days, that they didn't meet before, until there was a still bleeding still grasping for breath murdered woman laying on the ground, and one of them was there.. alone.. in the dark..


The Baron

[FrankO]

We’ve probably considered ever relevant point on the Bucks Row murder but it doesn’t stop us thinking about it though and last night I thought of a minor point to mention for what it’s worth.

As the suggestion appears to be that Cross just ran into Polly and decided on the spot to kill her (or why would he have met her elsewhere and then took her to Bucks Row at such a time that was so close to his being due at work with walking still to do) so would he really have been carrying with him the type of knife that was required to commit the murder? People carried knives of course for everyday use, work etc, but Llewellyn’s described a long bladed knife. A bit strange to be carrying this type of knife? I’d have thought this likelier to have been carried by someone that set out intending to kill?

Hi Mike,

What I'd wonder about is, if his murders are supposed to have been without any forethought about them, then how would he have managed to have time for committing them? Because, if he didn't (go to bed,) wake up & go out with murder on his mind, then he would just wake up and leave home at the time he was used & supposed to. Maybe he would have had 5 minutes to spare, in case he walked into an opportunity, but not much more, I'd think.

Cheers,
Frank

[Jon Guy]

And if Lechmere and Paul shared the same route to work same time every day, then why is it, of all days, that they didn't meet before, until there was a still bleeding still grasping for breath murdered woman laying on the ground, and one of them was there.. alone.. in the dark..

.. and don`t forget Nichols was chatting away to PC Neil whilst been carried on the stretcher to the mortuary.

[Geddy2112]

And if Lechmere and Paul shared the same route to work same time every day, then why is it, of all days, that they didn't meet before, until there was a still bleeding still grasping for breath murdered woman laying on the ground, and one of them was there.. alone.. in the dark..

Oh that one is easy, because Paul was running late and would normally have been in front of Lechmere. Lechmere was only 'behind time' because of the co-finding of the body. He never said he was late leaving the house.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Herlock,

An interesting question. Did Jack select his kill nights on the basis of some ritual or religious conviction (that might explain the double event), or was he an opportunist that carried the knife in case an opportunity presented itself. If Cross is under consideration I think that the only way he ran into Polly in Bucks Row was if she was rough sleeping. Otherwise I think he would have picked her up in Whitechapel Road, having left home earlier than required for his walk to work. Did Cross ever say that he started work every morning at 4AM? Might his start time have varied on an "as required" basis? We can't know, but the walking to work makes a good cover story.

Cheers, George

Hi George,

We can’t know for sure of course but my opinion is that the killer just killed when the desire came upon him. As to his start time, all that we can say is that the overwhelming majority of jobs involved someone going to work at the same time every but you’re right to point out that some vary.

Walking to work and committing a murder would also make Cross unique as far as we know in the annals of crime.