Charles Lechmere interesting link

[Fisherman]

Yes, can't argue with that.

By the way, we all know I meant " WAlkie talkie" don't we? Damn predictive text.

Haha! Yes, I sussed that out all by myself. But I´ve been completely fooled by my mobiles´ built-in inventive powers at times. One of my messages to my wife once came out as a claim that I was spending the evening with a less than respectable girl, while I was in fact speaking of a horse...

[Rob1n]

Yes, can't argue with that.

By the way, we all know I meant " WAlkie talkie" don't we? Damn predictive text.

[Fisherman]

Yes, we perhaps should establish his guilt, just for me, the mystery would go out of it all but, as you say, justice must prevail.

There are many monuments in London and elsewhere that celebrate evil deeds but, this is history good or bad and the history of London is being eroded rapidly whilst we build more steel and glass offices, will the " Wilkie talkie" be a topic of discussion in 120 odd years time or, the "cheese grater"?

We're not making much interesting history at the moment, let's try and keep what we've got.

I do see your point though, of course.

As I said, I agree that it is a sad feeling to see so much of old London go. Then again, the Wentworth Model buildings we think quite atmospheric today (and where the apron piece was found after the Eddowes murder) was brand new when the Ripper spree occurred.
The wave of time is a relentless piece of sandpaper, turning modern and new to old and outdated.

[Rob1n]

If Lechmere is the killer, then to me, I find it vital to establish it, in order to give the victims some long forlorn justice.
I agree that it is a strangely sad feeling to see the old sites go - I really cannot say why, because why would we NOT celebrate them going? They represent(ed) some very evil deeds, and in that sense, they are some very odd monuments of memory.

Yes, we perhaps should establish his guilt, just for me, the mystery would go out of it all but, as you say, justice must prevail.

There are many monuments in London and elsewhere that celebrate evil deeds but, this is history good or bad and the history of London is being eroded rapidly whilst we build more steel and glass offices, will the " Wilkie talkie" be a topic of discussion in 120 odd years time or, the "cheese grater"?

We're not making much interesting history at the moment, let's try and keep what we've got.

I do see your point though, of course.

[Fisherman]

So, in essence, he may well have not stopped but perhaps slowed down if the urge declined but he may have had the occasional urge to kill.

As you say, there were "promising" cases beyond 1900, it's just hard to imagine how someone with such a destructive nature/ sexual perversion could either slow down or stop, it's likely that he did, in fact, carry on as you suggest but, with less drama or frequency.

Truly, I'd like to believe we have our Man and, there is a lot to suggest that this is the one, silly as it sounds but, I was recently visiting all of the murder sites and most of them are being ruined/ built on which really is a shame I feel that we are losing the history of this event so, if Lechmere is the Man then, I would rather not find out for sure as I'd like to keep the mystery alive, I'm not sure that the feeling or emotions that I have when I walk the sites would be lost if we knew for sure he did it, I can remember walking through Mitre passage one dark damp winters morning (about 2am) thinking how this dark narrow passage might well have been just like it was in 1888, now that passage has been pulled down I have a sense of loss - we've lost a vital part of our history - yep, I'd rather not know for sure!

If Lechmere is the killer, then to me, I find it vital to establish it, in order to give the victims some long forlorn justice.
I agree that it is a strangely sad feeling to see the old sites go - I really cannot say why, because why would we NOT celebrate them going? They represent(ed) some very evil deeds, and in that sense, they are some very odd monuments of memory.

[Rob1n]

I think most serialists who stop - and I am convinced that they DO stop sooner or later if they are not caught and get to live to old age - do so on account of loosing the drive that originally set them off. The deciding factor, I believe, is tightly knit to sexuality. When it tapers off, so does the killing.

In Lechmere´s case, there are murders that may have been his up til 1898 - and beyond. There are cases beyond the 1900 year mark that look promising too. I will not go into them here, though.

So, in essence, he may well have not stopped but perhaps slowed down if the urge declined but he may have had the occasional urge to kill.

As you say, there were "promising" cases beyond 1900, it's just hard to imagine how someone with such a destructive nature/ sexual perversion could either slow down or stop, it's likely that he did, in fact, carry on as you suggest but, with less drama or frequency.

Truly, I'd like to believe we have our Man and, there is a lot to suggest that this is the one, silly as it sounds but, I was recently visiting all of the murder sites and most of them are being ruined/ built on which really is a shame I feel that we are losing the history of this event so, if Lechmere is the Man then, I would rather not find out for sure as I'd like to keep the mystery alive, I'm not sure that the feeling or emotions that I have when I walk the sites would be lost if we knew for sure he did it, I can remember walking through Mitre passage one dark damp winters morning (about 2am) thinking how this dark narrow passage might well have been just like it was in 1888, now that passage has been pulled down I have a sense of loss - we've lost a vital part of our history - yep, I'd rather not know for sure!

[Sam Flynn]

Isn't it true to say that, whilst a murderer has a comfort zone he/she has a need to revisit the murder?

Whilst it's quite possible, we must be wary of the assumption that all serial killers must behave in the same way. Almost by definition, these deviants have a tendency to break the "rules"

[Fisherman]

Isn't it true to say that, whilst a murderer has a comfort zone he/she has a need to revisit the murder?

A kind of morbid need to see and feel or re-live the moment, to watch the interest, I would imagine that Lechmere might well have stood by and watched the public interest in his "work".

This will vary from killer to killer. Some will revisit their still unfound victims repeatedly, like Bundy and Shawcross for example. I´m sure there will be examples of killers who sneaked into the crowds of onlookers, but I cannot name such a serialist off the top of my head.

[Fisherman]

Totally agree with you, highly unlikely that the same methods would be used by more than one killer and at exactly the same time.

I believe he was the killer, one day perhaps it will be proved, can you tell me why he stopped though?

I think most serialists who stop - and I am convinced that they DO stop sooner or later if they are not caught and get to live to old age - do so on account of loosing the drive that originally set them off. The deciding factor, I believe, is tightly knit to sexuality. When it tapers off, so does the killing.

In Lechmere´s case, there are murders that may have been his up til 1898 - and beyond. There are cases beyond the 1900 year mark that look promising too. I will not go into them here, though.

[Rob1n]

Isn't it true to say that, whilst a murderer has a comfort zone he/she has a need to revisit the murder?

A kind of morbid need to see and feel or re-live the moment, to watch the interest, I would imagine that Lechmere might well have stood by and watched the public interest in his "work".

[Rob1n]

Totally agree with you, highly unlikely that the same methods would be used by more than one killer and at exactly the same time.

I believe he was the killer, one day perhaps it will be proved, can you tell me why he stopped though?

[Fisherman]

Right, I have walked this route many times, his route through Bucks row is a logical one, he has good reason to be at the murders sites at these times of the day so perhaps he is Jack but, what I've missed amongst all of these posts is, why did he stop killing.

There is so much interesting information here and I thank all contributors but I'm losing the will to live let alone search for the answers as to why he stopped.

It is my belief that Charles Lechmere was not only the Ripper but also the Thames torso killer. There are numerous common traits inbetween the two seris, and I find it beyond belief that there would have been two serial killers around in the same town at roughly the same time, both being eviscerators who cut from sternum to pubes, who both took out various organs from their victims, sexual as well as non-sexual, who both cut away the abdominal walls from their victims, who both took rings from the fingers of their victims and who both cut out sections of the colons of their victims. It just won´t happen unless we are dealing with the same man.
This takes us back to 1873, when Lechmere was around 24 years old. It also takes us to 1889, but I think that there are other murders too that may have been coupled to him, leading all the way up to 1898.
All in all, we would be looking at a span of a quarter of a decade if this holds true.

Maybe that can boost your will to live?

[Rob1n]

Lechmere/Cross

Right, I have walked this route many times, his route through Bucks row is a logical one, he has good reason to be at the murders sites at these times of the day so perhaps he is Jack but, what I've missed amongst all of these posts is, why did he stop killing.

There is so much interesting information here and I thank all contributors but I'm losing the will to live let alone search for the answers as to why he stopped.

[miss marple]

It like watching a planet exploding into a back hole. Its getting painful to read now.

'This is the end' 'No safety or surprise, the end'

Miss Marple

[Colin Roberts]

Accumulation of Probability Distribution (Elliptical): Murder-Site Mean-Center, to Extent of Fifty Percent Accumulation [Plus Contour Depiction of Extent of Two Standard Deviations from Murder-Site Mean-Center (Yellow)] (Click Image, to Enlarge in flickr)
Underlying Aerial Imagery: Copyright Google Earth, 2010
Overlying Plots, Labels and Color-Shadings: Copyright Colin C. Roberts, 2011

Yellow Contour: The extent of two standard deviations from the murder-site mean-center
Yellow Dot: The 1888 residence of Charles Lechmere; 22 Doveton Street, Hamlet of Mile End Old Town

Lechmere's 1888 residence would fall just within the 58th-60th percentile of the overall probability distribution.

Oooops!

I must be getting senile.

Lechmere's 1888 residence would fall just within the inner 58 to 60 percentage points of the overall probability distribution; i.e. the 40th-42nd percentile.

But again, it would be foolhardy to write him off on the basis of geography; especially when considering the fact that he traversed the major axis of the observed killing field as a matter of daily routine.

---

One other quick point, and then I really must be getting back to the real world:

This model is rather rudimentary and is in need of certain revisions. Perhaps one day I will have the necessary amount time with which to make them:

1.) A weighted murder-site factorization, e.g. …

- Tabram: 9/16, i.e. 56.25%
- Nichols: 15/16, i.e. 93.75%
- Chapman: 1/1, i.e. 100.00%
- Stride: 11/16, i.e. 68.75%
- Eddowes: 7/8, i.e. 87.50%
- Kelly: 3/4, i.e. 75.00%

2.) An accommodation of elliptical skew along both the major and minor axes, manifesting in a very slight stretch from the center - in the general direction of the Nichols murder-site, and a very slight stretch from the center - in the general direction of the Chapman murder-site. The contours would then take on the shape of an egg that was slightly flattened on one side.

3.) A perceived 'mode' point of central tendency, rather than a calculated 'mean' point of central tendency. This would shift the center of the probability distribution from the southwest corner of the intersection of Wentworth Street and Osborn Street, in the Parish of St. Mary Whitechapel, toward the southeast corner of the intersection of Thrawl Street and George Street, in the Parish of Christ Church Spitalfields. It would also rotate the distribution a few degrees in the clockwise direction, so that its major axis would be somewhat more parallel to the Aldgate High Street / Whitechapel High Street / Whitechapel Road thoroughfare.

4.) A factored tendency for the distribution to become increasingly more circular beyond the extent of two standard deviations.

Now, I really must go!