Evidence of innocence

[MrBarnett]

So Mr Barnett, Abby Normal, and I have all come to different conclusions on what Fisherman meant in Post #951.

Perhaps the problem is with the original post.

I don’t think so. If you read it carefully, it’s obvious he is talking about Crow.

[MrBarnett]

If Tabram was killed around 2.30-2.45am, then we need to add Tabram to the list of victims that Charles Lechmere has an alibi for. In order to kill Tabram, Lechmere would have had to leave for work over an hour early.



You should really take your own advice here.

5,

You really do seem to have a different understanding of the word alibi from me - and others, I would imagine. Surely it means evidence of a person not being in a particular at a particular time.

As far as we know, Lechmere didn’t have an alibi for Tabram or Chapman. Unless you know something the rest of us don’t?

[Abby Normal]

5,

You really do seem to have a different understanding of the word alibi from me - and others, I would imagine. Surely it means evidence of a person not being in a particular at a particular time.

As far as we know, Lechmere didn’t have an alibi for Tabram or Chapman. Unless you know something the rest of us don’t?

quite correct gary. ive told him a million times lech has no alibi for any of the murders. and alibi is a verified corroberation usually done by the police to confirm with another witness that the person wasnt at the scene of crime around tod. and besides we dont even have hard TOD on the victims anyway.

[John Wheat]

quite correct gary. ive told him a million times lech has no alibi for any of the murders. and alibi is a verified corroberation usually done by the police to confirm with another witness that the person wasnt at the scene of crime around tod. and besides we dont even have hard TOD on the victims anyway.

Do we know for certain The Police of the time didn't look into Lechmere?

[Kattrup]

Do we know for certain The Police of the time didn't look into Lechmere?

No we do not.

We know they examined Richardsson, who found Chapman, closely.


The police referred to Cross as Cross in their internal correspondance, this of course is not indicative of them not examining him more closely.

[Mark J D]

We know they examined Richardsson, who found Chapman, closely.

We also know that they gave Robert Paul some sort of grilling. But, then, he lived very close by the murder scene; had taken part in an unhelpful newspaper interview; and didn't have a PC as a deceased stepfather...

The police referred to Cross as Cross in their internal correspondance, this of course is not indicative of them not examining him more closely.

I don't think I've ever heard this before. Can we see this stuff?

M.

[Kattrup]

I don't think I've ever heard this before. Can we see this stuff?

M.

As I recall there’s once or twice where he’s mentioned by the police, I’ll see if I can find a reference

[Darryl Kenyon]

Do we know for certain The Police of the time didn't look into Lechmere?

Prima facie John , Lech looks like someone you would want to question further and it would seem rather strange if they didn't. So if they didn't they must have had good reason.
But if they did check on him further [ which I suspect, even if it was just routine ], perhaps he was eliminated after Annie's murder just over a week later. IE Lech had an alibi for Annies murder.
Perhaps they checked up at his place of work, and found out he was on shift that night and nowhere near the murder scene.

Regards Darryl

[Darryl Kenyon]

5,

You really do seem to have a different understanding of the word alibi from me - and others, I would imagine. Surely it means evidence of a person not being in a particular at a particular time.

As far as we know, Lechmere didn’t have an alibi for Tabram or Chapman. Unless you know something the rest of us don’t?

Hi
How do we know that Lech didn't have an alibi for Martha or Annie ?
As speculated in my last post, I am sure the police would have wanted to question Lech further, even if it is just routine, especially after the killings escalated. They knew were he lived etc. Perhaps they did and perhaps he did have an alibi. Pure speculation of course, but for Lech ,as far as I am aware never raising any alarm bells within a single police officer, well !

Regards Darryl

[Abby Normal]

Prima facie John , Lech looks like someone you would want to question further and it would seem rather strange if they didn't. So if they didn't they must have had good reason.
But if they did check on him further [ which I suspect, even if it was just routine ], perhaps he was eliminated after Annie's murder just over a week later. IE Lech had an alibi for Annies murder.
Perhaps they checked up at his place of work, and found out he was on shift that night and nowhere near the murder scene.

Regards Darryl

in other words, theres zero evidence he was alibied by the police.

[Abby Normal]

Hi
How do we know that Lech didn't have an alibi for Martha or Annie ?
As speculated in my last post, I am sure the police would have wanted to question Lech further, even if it is just routine, especially after the killings escalated. They knew were he lived etc. Perhaps they did and perhaps he did have an alibi. Pure speculation of course, but for Lech ,as far as I am aware never raising any alarm bells within a single police officer, well !

Regards Darryl

in other words theres zero evidence he was alibied by the police.

[Kattrup]

I don't think I've ever heard this before. Can we see this stuff?

M.

From the Ultimate sourcebook:

Donald Swanson's report, 19th October, about the murder: "The body of a woman was found [...] by Charles Cross & Robert Paul"

Abberline's report, 19th September: "I beg to report that about 3.40 am 31st Ult. as Charles Cross, "carman" of 22 Doveton Street, Cambridge Road, Bethnal Green was passing through Bucks Row, Whitechapel (on his way to work) he noticed a woman [...] Robert Paul of 30 Foster St., Bethnal Green came up, and Cross called his attention to the woman"

[Abby Normal]

No we do not.

We know they examined Richardsson, who found Chapman, closely.


The police referred to Cross as Cross in their internal correspondance, this of course is not indicative of them not examining him more closely.

hi kat
it was davis who discovered chapman

[Kattrup]

hi kat
it was davis who discovered chapman

Yes, of course you're right, thank you, I was too quick there - Posting from work

Richardsson was examined closely, but not because he found the body.

[Darryl Kenyon]

in other words, theres zero evidence he was alibied by the police.

Hi Abby
When I first became interested in JTR and read into the case, one of the things that struck me was Lech. A freshly/recently killed body and he is nearby etc . You wonder, as have you, Fish etc.
Now to me, I am sure there must have been at least one police officer who may have thought twice about Lech. They were experienced men on the ground. What did they have to go off ? No forensics, cctv etc
Mainly witnesses, interviewing of witnesses etc I am sure the same would be true of Lech. So although you are quite right Abby we have no evidence of an alibi . We have a sort of negative evidence if you will that he was never even remotely suspected. I believe there must be a reason for that.
Regards Darryl