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  • Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post
    Former neighbours who didn’t have his new address. You got there in the end. Unless of course, you imagine that every person he came into contact with during the decade he was living in James Street (not just neighbours but shopkeepers those in pubs etc) was given an invite to his house-warming party at Doveton Street.

    Is that what you are suggesting, that every single person who knew him only as Lechmere must have known his new address?
    You don't appear to be very good at reading comprehension.

    So you claim he was trying to hide his identity from former neighbors that he wasn't close enough to keep in touch with? Even though it would do nothing to keep the police, the press, his family, his current neighbors, his friends, his employers, his coworkers, or prostitutes from recognizing him?

    Who's coming up with this cunning plan? The Underpants Gnomes?

    "The full picture always needs to be given. When this does not happen, we are left to make decisions on insufficient information." - Christer Holmgren

    "Unfortunately, when one becomes obsessed by a theory, truth and logic rarely matter." - Steven Blomer

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Mark J D View Post
      To me, old bean, it's always seemed significant that -- of all those many papers! -- the one that carried Lechmere's address was the one whose reporter had by far the earliest copy deadline.

      He didn't hear the address 'given in open court'. He *copied it off a document as early as he could*, because he was smart and knew the clock was against him.

      M.
      Your theory doesn't make sense. To copy it off of the court document, the reporter would have to ask the court clerk to let him see the information after the inquest ended. Why would the reporter who was in the biggest hurry choose to wait longer than all of the reporters to leave the inquest?
      Last edited by Fiver; 10-08-2022, 02:31 AM.
      "The full picture always needs to be given. When this does not happen, we are left to make decisions on insufficient information." - Christer Holmgren

      "Unfortunately, when one becomes obsessed by a theory, truth and logic rarely matter." - Steven Blomer

      Comment


      • *duplicate*
        "The full picture always needs to be given. When this does not happen, we are left to make decisions on insufficient information." - Christer Holmgren

        "Unfortunately, when one becomes obsessed by a theory, truth and logic rarely matter." - Steven Blomer

        Comment


        • Originally posted by drstrange169 View Post
          Here's a question to ponder, how many witnesses in the entire case appeared at an inquest twice in one morning?
          heres a question to ponder. how many innocent witnesses were seen next to dead victim before raising any kind of alarm? right. zero
          "Is all that we see or seem
          but a dream within a dream?"

          -Edgar Allan Poe


          "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
          quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

          -Frederick G. Abberline

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Fiver View Post

            Your theory doesn't make sense. To copy it off of the court document, the reporter would have to ask the court clerk to let him see the information after the inquest ended. Why would the reporter who was in the biggest hurry choose to wait longer than all of the reporters to leave the inquest?
            Can't help you, squire.

            M.
            (Image of Charles Allen Lechmere is by artist Ashton Guilbeaux. Used by permission. Original art-work for sale.)

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

              heres a question to ponder. how many innocent witnesses were seen next to dead victim before raising any kind of alarm? right. zero
              Doesn't mean there is anything sinister to it. It's highly likely it was a coincidence.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

                heres a question to ponder. how many innocent witnesses were seen next to dead victim before raising any kind of alarm? right. zero
                There are two with the Nichols case - Charles Lechmere and PC Neil, both of whom deliberately called over the next person they saw.
                "The full picture always needs to be given. When this does not happen, we are left to make decisions on insufficient information." - Christer Holmgren

                "Unfortunately, when one becomes obsessed by a theory, truth and logic rarely matter." - Steven Blomer

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Fiver View Post

                  There are two with the Nichols case - Charles Lechmere and PC Neil, both of whom deliberately called over the next person they saw.
                  pc neil was never seen alone with a victim before raising any kind of alarm and we know lech was thats the whole point. as a matter of fact i cant think of any case where an innocent witness was.
                  "Is all that we see or seem
                  but a dream within a dream?"

                  -Edgar Allan Poe


                  "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                  quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                  -Frederick G. Abberline

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by John Wheat View Post

                    Doesn't mean there is anything sinister to it. It's highly likely it was a coincidence.
                    probably john, but its a pretty odd coincidence.at least to me.
                    "Is all that we see or seem
                    but a dream within a dream?"

                    -Edgar Allan Poe


                    "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                    quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                    -Frederick G. Abberline

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Fiver View Post

                      You don't appear to be very good at reading comprehension.

                      So you claim he was trying to hide his identity from former neighbors that he wasn't close enough to keep in touch with? Even though it would do nothing to keep the police, the press, his family, his current neighbors, his friends, his employers, his coworkers, or prostitutes from recognizing him?

                      Who's coming up with this cunning plan? The Underpants Gnomes?
                      garys response makes perfect sense if lech was the killer. not just with old neighbors but with anyone. if he was commonly known as lechmere, using cross could help hide his identity whether he gave address or not.

                      and underpants gnomes dont come up with this cunning plan, if you knew anything about the history of true crime, you would know that its common for criminals to use aliases to avoid detection. at least here in the real world.
                      "Is all that we see or seem
                      but a dream within a dream?"

                      -Edgar Allan Poe


                      "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                      quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                      -Frederick G. Abberline

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by jerryd View Post
                        This incident occurred a few months prior to Charles Lechmere's incident with the horse and cart in 1876. Could word have traveled to the Lechmere relations living in London? It's a possibility, judging by the name of the paper that reported on it. If so, would that be a reason for Charles Lechmere to use the name of Cross, if he were able to, legally?

                        West End News and London Advertiser
                        September 2, 1876


                        hi jerry
                        good find. yup of course
                        "Is all that we see or seem
                        but a dream within a dream?"

                        -Edgar Allan Poe


                        "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                        quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                        -Frederick G. Abberline

                        Comment


                        • >>heres a question to ponder. how many innocent witnesses were seen next to dead victim before raising any kind of alarm? right. zero<<

                          Unless you are privy to information Christer and Ed Stow have yet to find, quite probably ... one.
                          dustymiller
                          aka drstrange

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

                            heres a question to ponder. how many innocent witnesses were seen next to dead victim before raising any kind of alarm? right. zero
                            Hi Abby,

                            However, Cross/Lechmere wasn't even sure she was dead (though he claims to suspect she was later, that could be a bit of hindsight), Paul had joined him before he had a chance to even check her (so again, he didn't know she was dead, which would be a weird thing to expect before checking her out), and finally, he did raise an alarm given he and Paul went off to find the police, which they did in PC Mizen. Given they hadn't spotted her injuries, and weren't even sure if she was dead or just drunk, what more could we expect of them? Think about the actions of those who found clearly mutilated bodies, like Chapman or Kelly. They ran off and found other people (non-police) first rather than immediately start shouting - in fact, by not immediately looking for the police they did even less than Cross/Lechmere.

                            Come to think of it, I think it is only in the case of Stride where people run around the streets yelling for the police; and they had seen the blood and her injuries, unlike Cross/Lechmere. But in all other cases, people ran off and told someone, but didn't really "raise an alarm". So his actions are much like those we we all accept as innocent.

                            - Jeff

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by JeffHamm View Post

                              Hi Abby,

                              However, Cross/Lechmere wasn't even sure she was dead (though he claims to suspect she was later, that could be a bit of hindsight), Paul had joined him before he had a chance to even check her (so again, he didn't know she was dead, which would be a weird thing to expect before checking her out), and finally, he did raise an alarm given he and Paul went off to find the police, which they did in PC Mizen. Given they hadn't spotted her injuries, and weren't even sure if she was dead or just drunk, what more could we expect of them? Think about the actions of those who found clearly mutilated bodies, like Chapman or Kelly. They ran off and found other people (non-police) first rather than immediately start shouting - in fact, by not immediately looking for the police they did even less than Cross/Lechmere.

                              Come to think of it, I think it is only in the case of Stride where people run around the streets yelling for the police; and they had seen the blood and her injuries, unlike Cross/Lechmere. But in all other cases, people ran off and told someone, but didn't really "raise an alarm". So his actions are much like those we we all accept as innocent.

                              - Jeff
                              wrong. he was seen alone next to a freshly killed victim, and only raised the alarm when he saw paul coming close.
                              its unlike any other innocent witness not only in the ripper case, but in any true crime case ive ever heard.
                              "Is all that we see or seem
                              but a dream within a dream?"

                              -Edgar Allan Poe


                              "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                              quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                              -Frederick G. Abberline

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

                                wrong. he was seen alone next to a freshly killed victim, and only raised the alarm when he saw paul coming close.
                                its unlike any other innocent witness not only in the ripper case, but in any true crime case ive ever heard.
                                But in the absence of anything incriminating it is not enough to build a case against the man.

                                Comment

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