Originally posted by The Baron
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Originally posted by Columbo View Post
Well not that he needed one because he apparently was never accused, but guessing by his work history of several years of service I would say he was working. Most likely if he left his cart to get "pinched" he would've suffered a fine from his employer or getting axed.
done
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Originally posted by Harry D View PostIf Chapman was murdered while Lechmere was on his rounds, that raises several questions:- Would Lechmere's round have taken him past Hanbury Street?
- Would Lechmere had been using a horse and cart? If so, none were reported nearby.
- Wouldn't it have been foolhardy for Lechmere to park the cart elsewhere and leave it unguarded in the middle of Whitechapel?
* Was anything Lechmere delivered before 5:30am poorly wrapped meat to explain any bloodstains?
* If Lechmere had bloodstains he claimed came from poorly wrapped meat, then before signing for delivery every customer would have spent time examining their deliveries to make sure they had not been damaged by the blood.
* Was Lechmere assigned a van boy that day?
* Lechmere would have been wearing his work uniform. No carmen were reported nearby.
* Deliveries were signed off on along with the time of delivery . A delivery between 4am and 5:30 that took 20 minutes longer than it should have would drawn attention from record keepers and supervisors.
"The full picture always needs to be given. When this does not happen, we are left to make decisions on insufficient information." - Christer Holmgren
"Unfortunately, when one becomes obsessed by a theory, truth and logic rarely matter." - Steven Blomer
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Originally posted by Fiver View Post* Would Lechmere's route have taken him past Hanbury Street between 4:00am and 5:30am?
* Was anything Lechmere delivered before 5:30am poorly wrapped meat to explain any bloodstains?
* If Lechmere had bloodstains he claimed came from poorly wrapped meat, then before signing for delivery every customer would have spent time examining their deliveries to make sure they had not been damaged by the blood.
* Was Lechmere assigned a van boy that day?
* Lechmere would have been wearing his work uniform. No carmen were reported nearby.
* Deliveries were signed off on along with the time of delivery . A delivery between 4am and 5:30 that took 20 minutes longer than it should have would drawn attention from record keepers and supervisors.
‘No carmen were reported nearby’ is a classic. So there wasn’t a single horse and cart anywhere near Hanbury Street or Spitalfields Market around 5 a.m. that morning???
Try working out a route between Liverpool Street and HB’s wholesale depot in Coventry Street and see if it passes anywhere near Hanbury Street. Or perhaps, for once, you’ve actually bothered to put in the research and come to the conclusion that the shortest route was via the Old Kent Road. Enlighten us.
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The brigade that suspects Lechmere shouldn't be calling his defendants and doubters "desperate", they should be looking for actual evidence that he really did something. All I have seen is suggestions that he could have done something. That applies to most of the adult male population of East London. I for one, accept the possibility that he could have done something here, but I haven't seen any evidence that he did. Don't ask for proof that he didn't do anything, offer evidence that he did. An alleged coincidence, a claim that it is possible that he was somewhere, or he retained his step-father's name etc is not evidence of guilt.
I for one would welcome some genuine tangible evidence in this case.
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Originally posted by Doctored Whatsit View PostThe brigade that suspects Lechmere shouldn't be calling his defendants and doubters "desperate", they should be looking for actual evidence that he really did something. All I have seen is suggestions that he could have done something. That applies to most of the adult male population of East London. I for one, accept the possibility that he could have done something here, but I haven't seen any evidence that he did. Don't ask for proof that he didn't do anything, offer evidence that he did. An alleged coincidence, a claim that it is possible that he was somewhere, or he retained his step-father's name etc is not evidence of guilt.
I for one would welcome some genuine tangible evidence in this case.
the only tangible evidence in this case against any suspect, and its still very weak at that, is the possible id of koz.
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Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post
It was, but now it’s about a Lechmere having an alibi for the Chapman murder. He didn’t.
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Hi Abby,
In general terms, I agree that there isn't good useful evidence against any suspect - that is why I don't have one. Unfortunately, it will always be that when someone has a suspect, and no real evidence, the quoting of possibilities, vague doubts, alleged anomolies etc, tends to appear very weak, and occasionally rather desperate - and frankly very desperate when we resort to - he could have done it, because there isn't any good evidence that he didn't. That applies, I think, to almost the entire population of the area at the time! Something like a witness statement describing a possible carman in the vicinity at the time of Chapman or Tabram's murders, for example, would be very useful. Although I agree that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, there is always nothing there to help us.
Personally I can't argue for one suspect based on virtually no evidence whatever, because I will always be outvoted by those who point out the lack of evidence. That's our problem, isn't it? Ripperology is a subject full of contradicting information, some facts, and endless possibilities. That's probably why it can be so addictive.
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Did Lechmere like wearing multiple headwear whilst at work? Did he smoke a clay pipe or drink on duty? Did sometimes like to look like a sailor when working? Did he have a carrot moustache with a blotchy face? Did he like walking around looking like a Jewish spiv?
He matches no witness descriptions at all.
Only Nichols has even the remotest link to Lechmere and that is weak at best.
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Originally posted by Doctored Whatsit View PostHi Abby,
In general terms, I agree that there isn't good useful evidence against any suspect - that is why I don't have one. Unfortunately, it will always be that when someone has a suspect, and no real evidence, the quoting of possibilities, vague doubts, alleged anomolies etc, tends to appear very weak, and occasionally rather desperate - and frankly very desperate when we resort to - he could have done it, because there isn't any good evidence that he didn't. That applies, I think, to almost the entire population of the area at the time! Something like a witness statement describing a possible carman in the vicinity at the time of Chapman or Tabram's murders, for example, would be very useful. Although I agree that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, there is always nothing there to help us.
Personally I can't argue for one suspect based on virtually no evidence whatever, because I will always be outvoted by those who point out the lack of evidence. That's our problem, isn't it? Ripperology is a subject full of contradicting information, some facts, and endless possibilities. That's probably why it can be so addictive.
which is why i keep an open mind and view the suspects as a range of validity, instead of having one suspect, or no suspect. ive noticed people that have a favored suspect, will more often than not will knee jerk attack all other suspects. its also why i dont understand the almost hysterical reaction against lech as a suspect. hes as valid a suspect (or as i like to say -least weak ) as any other and checks a few boxes.
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Originally posted by erobitha View PostDid Lechmere like wearing multiple headwear whilst at work? Did he smoke a clay pipe or drink on duty? Did sometimes like to look like a sailor when working? Did he have a carrot moustache with a blotchy face? Did he like walking around looking like a Jewish spiv?
He matches no witness descriptions at all.
Only Nichols has even the remotest link to Lechmere and that is weak at best.
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Originally posted by Dickere View Post
Being found alone at the scene of the crime immediately after it occurred is rather more than "weak at best".
On your wonderful use of logic we should also consider PC Watkins as a suspect? Or perhaps John Davis? Or even Louis D?
Its the epitome of weak.
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Originally posted by erobitha View Post
No, your phrasing makes it sounds more sinister than it was. First to discover the body is the correct phrasing.
On your wonderful use of logic we should also consider PC Watkins as a suspect? Or perhaps John Davis? Or even Louis D?
Its the epitome of weak.
You mentioned Lechmere, rightly, in a Lechmere thread but when someone argues against your view you jump to comparisons with others. That is actually weak.
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Originally posted by Dickere View Post
I'm afraid your post is the epitome of 'whataboutism'.
You mentioned Lechmere, rightly, in a Lechmere thread but when someone argues against your view you jump to comparisons with others. That is actually weak.
Lechmere was the first to discover the body. That is it. There is nothing else to see here. If that is good enough for you to make him JtR then so should all the others who were first discover the body of the victims as they all have exactly the same level of evidence aginst them as he does.
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