Evidence of innocence

[drstrange169]

>>Can we name another example where a serial killer murdered a victim and then hung around at the scene to call someone over to the body of his victim?<<

Can we name an example of a serial killer who murdered his victims within minutes of starting a day's work?

[Abby Normal]

>>Can we name another example where a serial killer murdered a victim and then hung around at the scene to call someone over to the body of his victim?<<

Can we name an example of a serial killer who murdered his victims within minutes of starting a day's work?

i think there were several truck driver serial killers who did, or at least while they were working, but point taken. its one of my main beefs against lech as the ripper.

but turned around... can we name and example of an innocent "witness" who is seen near a freshly killed victim before trying to raise any kind of alarm? ive never heard of that either.

[SuperShodan]

The title of this thread is Evidence of Innocence and I think it worth looking at the murder sites and some other factors about Lechmere in this context.

If we decide Lechmere is a good suspect and we try and link him to the murders but there is nothing there, then it’s evidence of innocence. Let’s say there is absolutely nothing to link him to any murder location whatsoever - that’s evidence of innocence. However, we find that Lechmere walks within yards of several of the murders on his way to work and he’s there around the the time of the murders too. For example, how could we link any other Ripper suspect to Bucks Row at 03.45 ? Suggestions on a postcard please.

Then we look at Eddowes and Stride, below the psychological barrier of Whitechapel Road. 2 murders at a different time than the others. If we can’t link Lechmere to these it’s evidence of innocence ?

However, we find that his mother and daughter live a stones throw away from Berner Street, and Saturday is his only night off. We discover that Mitre Square is on his old route to work, and we find that the crucial evidence of the bloody apron piece is discarded on a direct route from the Eddowes murder to his home in Doveton Street. We can link him to everything and still no evidence of innocence.

Moving on, how did JTR move around undetected ? After Chapman we had increased police patrols, undercover cops, vigilance committees and a wary public. If Lechmere had no reason to be out at night it would be evidence of innocence, it would be hard for him to be JTR.

However, we find that he is a carman who starts work at 4am and his route to work takes him right through Ripper territory at the time of the murders. He has a reason to be out and could walk around unchallenged and unnoticed. If he were a dockworker or a postman and worked 06.00 - 14.00 or 14.00 - 22.00 then it’s evidence of innocence. He has no cause to be out in the early hours of the morning.

I’ll cut it short here, but we can see there is no obstacles in the way of Lechmere’s candidacy as JTR. There is no evidence of innocence anywhere. It’s actually incredible to start researching Lechmere and find that he can’t be eliminated, and that every aspect of his life fits with the murders.

[drstrange169]

>>I have recently tried to upgrade the graphic we all know from the Blink Films documentary.<<

Why does the map show Cross going away from the Pickfords office and why aren't the other entrances that he would have actually used shown?

[Mark J D]

... the two not on his route to work are near his mums, on a non work day. and goulston st is on a route from mitre square back to lechs home...

I toyed briefly with the idea of marking an 'X' at No. 253 Whitechapel Road -- where that knife with a blood-stained handkerchief around it was found in the wee hours of 1 October. But do we have reason enough to consider that case-related?

M.

[mpriestnall]

I have to say that I couldn’t agree more with post #4368.

Oh go on you could!

[Herlock Sholmes]

>>Can we name another example where a serial killer murdered a victim and then hung around at the scene to call someone over to the body of his victim?<<

Can we name an example of a serial killer who murdered his victims within minutes of starting a day's work?

I seem to remember asking that question around 3 years or so ago but I can’t recall the answer if there was one Dusty. Just as I can’t recall anyone naming another serial killer who, without being forced into it by circumstances, stood around with a victim and waited for a complete stranger to get there so that he could show him the body whilst he himself, a) had no way of cleaning himself up or seeing how much blood he had on him, and b) had a bloodied knife on him.

Can anyone name one? I’m not saying that there couldn’t have been one but I’d just like a name.

[FISHY1118]

If I may: the real problem with Long's identification is that, if you keep reading, her testimony proves to be self-undermining...

---
Was it not an unusual thing to see a man and a woman standing there talking? - Oh no. I see lots of them standing there in the morning.

At that hour of the day? - Yes; that is why I did not take much notice of them.
---

https://www.casebook.org/press_reports/daily_telegraph/dt880920.html

Terrific. She is 'sure' the victim is a woman she didn't take much notice of.

M.

Really Mark ? wheres the problem? ive often walked down the street and looked closely at someone i could easily identify and very simply just keep going without taking any further notice . Remember were looking for the words from Long wheres she says ''Not Sure''.

[Abby Normal]

I toyed briefly with the idea of marking an 'X' at No. 253 Whitechapel Road -- where that knife with a blood-stained handkerchief around it was found in the wee hours of 1 October. But do we have reason enough to consider that case-related?

M.

no. not IMHO

[GUT]

I seem to remember asking that question around 3 years or so ago but I can’t recall the answer if there was one Dusty. Just as I can’t recall anyone naming another serial killer who, without being forced into it by circumstances, stood around with a victim and waited for a complete stranger to get there so that he could show him the body whilst he himself, a) had no way of cleaning himself up or seeing how much blood he had on him, and b) had a bloodied knife on him.

Can anyone name one? I’m not saying that there couldn’t have been one but I’d just like a name.

Not only that but the stranger seems determined to not be stopped. Just let Paul walk on, then get out of their, if he doesn’t hoof it before Paul gets to him.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Not only that but the stranger seems determined to not be stopped. Just let Paul walk on, then get out of their, if he doesn’t hoof it before Paul gets to him.

And if he had walked or run away GUT there was always the chance that Paul might have just walked past the dark shape on the floor. Like Lechmere he might have thought that it could have been some object or just a drunk.

[FISHY1118]

The reason that I haven’t commented is because I haven’t been following this Hanbury Street stuff. Trevor knows that I disagree with him about how safe or unsafe witnesses were. All witnesses have to be taken with caution of cause but the problem comes in how individuals interpret their reliability. I think that most witnesses in the case might be deemed unsafe to some extent (by Trevor’s interpretation) but we still shouldn’t dismiss them imo. And as we know Doctor’s TOD estimations were largely inaccurate I’d apply the same to Phillips as I would to all Doctors in all cases (Fish for example strongly disagrees in the Hanbury Street case) Was Long ‘unsafe?’ There are certainly questions to be considered in regard to the other witnesses. It’s down to how we as individuals interpret them and sometimes we just won’t agree.

So just so im clear , trevor is of the ''firm belief'' [ his words mind you ] chapmans death was in line with the eariler murders 1.45 _ 3.34am which effectively has him ''AGREEING'' with a largely innaccurate t.o.d as given by Dr Phillips ,while at the same time dismissing the testimonies of long and cadousch as ''unsafe'' ? This to me reads like he wants his cake and eat it as well , Once again , if phillips is right then long and cadousch are either mistaken or lied [remembering what trevor said about p.c neil] . finally although he wont say it ,ill put him down for the later and close this topic off for me . regards f.

[drstrange169]

>>but turned around... can we name and example of an innocent "witness" who is seen near a freshly killed victim before trying to raise any kind of alarm? ive never heard of that either.<<

In big cities, thousands of people everyday walk past a person lying in the street without raising any kind of alarm. Many, including myself on several occasions, stand and stare at a prone figure trying to determine whether they need assistance or are homeless people just sleeping. I don't know if you live in a big city Abby, but if you do you must have seen similar or at the very least known of people who did.

I've told this story before, there was a guy lying 100 feet from the TV station I worked at. I was late so I walked past him and alerted security at the front desk who were better equipped to him than I. They went out to help him and the guy got up and started trying to fight them! I'm glad I didn't stop.

[JeffHamm]

Ok, I've been able to make a little video and upload it. Sorry for my rambling, but if you're interested in watching the simulation I've been talking about play out, you should be able view it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDZ422tMiWg

Enjoy.

- Jeff

[drstrange169]

>>And if he had walked or run away GUT there was always the chance that Paul might have just walked past the dark shape on the floor. Like Lechmere he might have thought that it could have been some object or just a drunk.<<

We know he tried to do just that.