Charles Cross

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi RJ, hope you are well, as far as I know that is the only unmolested picture around. In the doctored versions you mainly just see his face. Oh with a 'new' scar that seems to have come about due to the doctoring. Some say he got this in a altercation with one of his victims. Some suggest a stroke. Is this what you are hinting at?
For me he is probably right handed since he seems to be holding a walking stick, all be it rather loosely. Although the cane in the right hand could be due to a 'left sided' injury or stroke. For me he is putting his weight onto his left side onto what looks to me like a dining room chair (or open garden gate.) Although as you say his left leg is in front of the right suggesting it's maybe 'crossed' over the right leg near the ankle.

For what it's worth and what strikes me odd about this picture is the scenery. It looks rather floral and 'Country House' to me. I'll the ring the National Trust tomorrow to see if they ever had a member by the name Charles Lechmere. He does seem to have some form of badge on his right lapel.

Leaning on that chair he looks like Larry Grayson.

The badge is a membership medal for the National Institute of Serial Killers.

[rjpalmer]

Some suggest a stroke. Is this what you are hinting at?

No; it appears to me that his torso is somewhat stiff and yet twisted, and the odd protrusion of his chest could indicate he's wearing a Victorian-era back brace because he has curvature of the spine. And why does he need to both steady himself with a cane and a chair?

If he is 'crippled up,' as they used to call it, it could have come on in old age, but is there anything in the historical record that precludes him from having scoliosis or some other deformity?

Below is a more exaggerated case of what I *think* I might be seeing.

[Mark J D]

In your Lechmerian travels, have you come across a high-definition photograph of Charles Lechmere that isn't cropped?

I have.

There is something odd about his aspect...

There isn't.

He has a cane in one hand...

He doesn't. In his right hand he's holding 14 inches of excised human colon. Or a soft hat or cap. Opinion is divided.

... and either another cane in the other hand (or more likely) is gripping a wall or something in the shrubbery for stability as if he's not quite steady on his feet.

His left hand is holding the top of a garden gate -- that of 24 Carlton Road, as shown by the brickwork -- which is closed behind him. Nothing suggests that he is 'not quite steady on his feet'. Entirely the opposite, in fact.

His chest also seems to protrude strangely, and I have a theory about this.

It doesn't. Theory unnecessary; thanks all the same.

And although it is difficult to tell with one arm partially raised and one shoulder in the foliage, the shoulders don't seem quite symmetrical to me.

The distortion is minor and entirely the result of his left arm being slightly raised by the gate and his right arm not being raised by anything and hanging straight down. The effect is actually of total self-assurance. And after all, this is 1912, and *he knows he got away with it*.

One leg is also thrown slightly forward at an odd angle, but I'd like to see a better photograph, if possible, with the borders so we know it isn't cropped.

His left foot is crossed over his right, toe down, heel up. Boots perfectly polished; trousers perfectly creased.

it reminds me of the old nursey rhyme 'there was a crooked man.'

It reminds me of the old nursery rhyme 'Let's try and make this man more visibly deformed than any suspect reported by any witness'... A sad ending to that one, as I recall...


M.

[Mark J D]

... why does he need to both steady himself with a cane and a chair?

There is no cane, and there is no chair. Apart from that: flawless.

M.

[Geddy2112]

I have.

Sharing is caring. Can you post the picture please. I really hope it's not the one with the 'fake' scar... thanks.

It looks very much like a chair to me as the side of it is tapered towards the top. A gate would not have that feature.

[Geddy2112]

Oh whilst I'm here, according to Michael Conner in the Ripp 87 we get this...

Charles Allen Lechmere was illiterate.

Now I'm not sure how he came to this conclusion but some evidence would be nice. Any ideas?

[Herlock Sholmes]

I have.


There isn't.


He doesn't. In his right hand he's holding 14 inches of excised human colon. Or a soft hat or cap. Opinion is divided.


His left hand is holding the top of a garden gate -- that of 24 Carlton Road, as shown by the brickwork -- which is closed behind him. Nothing suggests that he is 'not quite steady on his feet'. Entirely the opposite, in fact.


It doesn't. Theory unnecessary; thanks all the same.


The distortion is minor and entirely the result of his left arm being slightly raised by the gate and his right arm not being raised by anything and hanging straight down. The effect is actually of total self-assurance. And after all, this is 1912, and *he knows he got away with it*.


His left foot is crossed over his right, toe down, heel up. Boots perfectly polished; trousers perfectly creased.


It reminds me of the old nursery rhyme 'Let's try and make this man more visibly deformed than any suspect reported by any witness'... A sad ending to that one, as I recall...


M.

Mind-boggling levels of irony here considering the comedic lengths that some have gone to in the past to manufacture a case against a man who simply found a body just like the thousands of others who found a dead body whilst walking outdoors - none of whom turned out to have been a serial killer.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Oh whilst I'm here, according to Michael Conner in the Ripp 87 we get this...



Now I'm not sure how he came to this conclusion but some evidence would be nice. Any ideas?

It’s surprising that the Cross Fan Club haven’t already come up with a way of presenting this as further evidence of his guilt. Mind you, there’s still time for Ed and co to concoct something.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Mark J.D. states with unfounded confidence that this picture shows brickwork behind this guy that found the body of Mary Nichols. I disagree. It looks nothing like brickwork to me.

Look at the line emerging from just above his left shoulder and sloping downward. Just below it (I’d estimate around 3 inches) is another line which is parallel to it. This looks to me like the cross piece of a fence. Then look at the one emerging from his left hip and is again sloping downward. This, to me, is fairly clearly another cross piece (not a great description I admit so if there are any professional fence builders in?) The top of the fence and the 2 cross pieces exhibit the perspective of a fence which ends somewhere out of shot.

The line emerging from the top of his head is obviously at a different angle and so is on the other side of the fence behind Cross. Within the foliage on his own right side and above his is a vertical post with what could be a horizontal one. This is all surrounded by heavy shrubbery.

Also, it could really be much clearer that Cross is leaning with his left hand on the back of a chair and I feel that Roger could be correct and that his right hand is holding a walking stick.

So, we have Cross standing in front of a fence near to a corner piece (which is at his right shoulder) At the other side of the fence it looks as if it could be an ajar door. His left hand is leaning on a chair and his right is gripping what could be a walking stick.

[Geddy2112]

I'm not seeing brickwork either, rendering possibly. No sign of a pocket watch either so I doubt he had one back in 1888...

[GBinOz]

Also, it could really be much clearer that Cross is leaning with his left hand on the back of a chair and I feel that Roger could be correct and that his right hand is holding a walking stick.

To me he appears to have a crook style walking stick in his left hand. I see the circular top of the stick in the hand with the fingers wrapped around it, and the straight extending below. It appear to me that he has something like a book in his right hand - that isn't the way a walking stick is gripped.

Cheers, George

[Abby Normal]

hes holding a cane in his right hand and bracing himself with the top of a chair with his left

[C. F. Leon]

Agreed. The whole thing is a nonsense. I have stated before that Cross was an actual person and labelling him as the most infamous serial killer of all time based on absolutely nothing that can't be easily explained is in my opinion- sick.

If any currently-living relatives of Lechmere/Cross could be found, they would have a damn good case for Libel charges. As I see it, only the Statute of Limitations would get in the way. The same applies to Rev. Dodgson (Lewis Carroll), Vincent Van Gogh, etc.

It would at least shut some of these trolls up with their nonsense "theories". Yes, Lechmere is worth a second look, but that doesn't make him automatically GUILTY of Nichols' murder, let alone ANY of the others.

I firmly believe that a large part of the problem is that Critical Thinking isn't being taught anymore ANYWHERE.

[Geddy2112]

If any currently-living relatives of Lechmere/Cross could be found, they would have a damn good case for Libel charges. As I see it, only the Statute of Limitations would get in the way. The same applies to Rev. Dodgson (Lewis Carroll), Vincent Van Gogh, etc.

'In the UK, Parliament has not passed an Act that provides a statute of limitations. However, there are time limits in which criminal proceedings and civil claims must be brought.'

Unfortunately the only descendant of Charles Lechmere I know is Susan Clapp, 'partner in life and Politics' with Edward Stow. Of course she is very much in the Lechmere done it camp. So I doubt she would 'sue' Hi Sue if you are reading, I know you are...

I firmly believe that a large part of the problem is that Critical Thinking isn't being taught anymore ANYWHERE.

Ah yes indeed. You only have to read the comments in the HoL YouTube channel to see a few villages are missing their idiots. The amount that think it's either Lechmere or H H Holmes is astonishing. Of course they are not ruining future research are they?

[Geddy2112]

To me he appears to have a crook style walking stick in his left hand. I see the circular top of the stick in the hand with the fingers wrapped around it, and the straight extending below. It appear to me that he has something like a book in his right hand - that isn't the way a walking stick is gripped.

I think he is definitely leaning on a chair with his left hand, an open gate would not have a tapered cross section. Agreed with the right hand, sometimes it looks to me like a cane, then maybe a cap. Have to wait on Mark with his hi-res photo I guess...