Deadly occupations and serial murder

[Herlock Sholmes]

So we have a man who works in a profession that answers to todays truckers and their exposure to prostitution and low-life characters and their propensity to become serial killing (drastically put, but you get my drift), a man who can have suffered desensitation from his connections to the butchery and meat trade, a man who had a reason to be on the streets at nights, a man who knew that a few decades ago, he would have been able to rise high above the scum and prostitution of the East End, a man who was found standing close to a freshly killed (yes!) and still bleeding murder victim in the Ripper series and a man who gave a name he was not registered by and one we have no other record of him ever having used oficially himself, plus a man who disagreed with a serving PC over what was said between them on the murder night, and where the PC claims that the carman presented him with a lie that seems tailormade to take him past the police unsearched.
He is also of an age that allows him to be the Torso killer (working from 1873 to 1889) and he has access to transportation by means of his work. And he has logical ties to each of the murder sites in the Ripper series.

But Bury is a better suspect. And Diemschitz, not least.

It is the upside down of logic, the world behind the mirror. And it is as infuriating as it is laughable.

You use the word 'propensity' meaning 'a natural inclination.' What percentage I wonder of truck drivers become serial killers? The only connection is in the way that individual long distance lorry drivers (who have an in-built propensity for violence against women in the first place) have a better opportunity to do so. It is not the case that normal people who become truck drivers suddenly have a higher chance of turning to serial murder. So even if you are saying that CL took to his job to facilitate his murderous appetites the comparison is futile as you are suggesting that he killed Polly Nichols before he even got to work.

A man can be desensitised to butchery by carrying meat around! Comment is superfluous on that point I think.

A man who had reason to be on the streets at night. I don't know about Sweden but we consider 3.40am to be the early morning. Yes he had reason to be on the streets. He had a job! Maybe others did too?

A man who knew that a few decades ago he would have been able to rise up above the scum..... Again, you are just making stuff up. You can't possibly know that he seethed with resentment. He seemed to get on with working all of his life and providing for his family pretty well.

The name thing.....You really should give this bit of desperate non-evidence up. He gained no advantage from it. A harmless white lie at worst.

He disagreed with Mizen....Why do we assume he lied? Why couldn't Mizen have lied? Or misheard? The non-existant Mizen Scam needs Paul to be in on it. To submissively stands aside to allow CL to spin his web of lies into Mizen's ear. A SuperCop who was more interested in knocking people up than doing his real job.

Torso killer.....I won't comment as I have looked into the case enough.

Access to transportation....The women were killed in a small area. Why would he need transport unless you are adding laziness to his catalogue of deficiencies.

Logical ties to the sites....Nonsense. So would thousands of others. Do you honestly think that he would think 'I'll just pop out to see Mum. I might even butcher a prostitute on the way!' Those alleged ties are utterly irrelevant.

But Bury is a better suspect....... weird eh? A proven murderer(that CL wasn't)that consorted with prostitutes(that CL didn't or at least we have no proof of it) who had access to the sites, lived locally and had his own cart!

You're right....it's infuriating and laughable that a person can fixate on a suspect that's not a suspect. That no one at the time suspected. That the police didn't suspect. That found a body, reported it to the police, then went to the Inquest and went on to live a normal life. Yet it's you who keeps getting stroppy when people disagree!

Herlock

[Herlock Sholmes]

LOL

Of course, Lechmere doesn't appear to have even reached the depot, never mind got into his vehicle, before he killed! If he had access to transport, and ran errands all over London, any self-respecting SK would surely have exploited the opportunity. Yet we don't we see any Ripper-like murders at all beyond the narrow confines of the Canonical Five murder sites. My conclusion from this is that Jack the Ripper was a local killer, operating on foot; if he'd been involved in a "mobile" profession, he'd surely have left his mark over a much wider area.

hi Sam

Excellent point.

The whole transport thing is an irrelevance.

Regards

Herlock

[curious]

So driving a cart is irrevant to the murders. As I stated before carman went a to b pick up goods, waited while goods were put on cart. Carman were not removal men,that was a different job. Men would have loaded the cart, he might have had a list checking out the goods then dropped them off. Lateness or delay would mean a dock in pay. Back the the depot see to the horses. Where did the comical scene of Lechmere staggering under a weight of bloody meat come from. Nor did he drive his fast stallions around the country committing killings in far away counties for days at a time while on the job.

Miss Marple

I agree.

I believe Fisherman has seen a documentary that he likes and has decided he will connect to his theory.

There are no logical connections.

[Pierre]

[QUOTE=Herlock Sholmes;424074]

He disagreed with Mizen....Why do we assume he lied? Why couldn't Mizen have lied? Or misheard? The non-existant Mizen Scam needs Paul to be in on it. To submissively stands aside to allow CL to spin his web of lies into Mizen's ear. A SuperCop who was more interested in knocking people up than doing his real job.

Hi Herlock,

There is a problem here. Robert Paul was not present at the inquest on the day when Mizen and Cross were testifying.

Pierre

[Pierre]

[QUOTE=Herlock Sholmes;424074]

He disagreed with Mizen....Why do we assume he lied? Why couldn't Mizen have lied? Or misheard?

He did contradict Mizen. And he did not give the name of his wife and children at the inquest.

Mizen was sworn.

Pierre

[John G]

LOL

Of course, Lechmere doesn't appear to have even reached the depot, never mind got into his vehicle, before he killed! If he had access to transport, and ran errands all over London, any self-respecting SK would surely have exploited the opportunity. Yet we don't we see any Ripper-like murders at all beyond the narrow confines of the Canonical Five murder sites. My conclusion from this is that Jack the Ripper was a local killer, operating on foot; if he'd been involved in a "mobile" profession, he'd surely have left his mark over a much wider area.

Excellent point Gareth. Although Fish will probably argue that whilst in the guise of JtR he was on foot. However, once he entered the metaphorical Superman telephone box, he was suddenly transformed into Torso Man, under which guise he utilised the Lechmere "Truck"/barge/cruising boat/ disposal centre/ storage unit to commit a radically different type of decapitation murders.

[John G]

Apart from the absurdity of the comparison, you might as well compare an airline pilot with the driver of a tram. I cannot see the relevance of any person involved in transportation, with Whitechapel murders as the women were murdered in the street by a man on foot, apart from MK who was probably murdered in her room by a man she met outside at night. All in a fairly small area. The easier thing in the world was to go to the pub, pick up a woman, go to the street pick up a woman.

So driving a cart is irrevant to the murders. As I stated before carman went a to b pick up goods, waited while goods were put on cart. Carman were not removal men,that was a different job. Men would have loaded the cart, he might have had a list checking out the goods then dropped them off. Lateness or delay would mean a dock in pay. Back the the depot see to the horses. Where did the comical scene of Lechmere staggering under a weight of bloody meat come from. Nor did he drive his fast stallions around the country committing killings in far away counties for days at a time while on the job.

Miss Marple

Brilliant points, Miss Marple. Cool logic, not wild speculation or tenuous theories, is surely the way forward.

[Elamarna]

You are too fond of the phrase "misleading", Steve. And too little versed in what that means. To say that a bargeman is more connected to a trucker than a carman, now THAT is misleading. Both are related, but the bargeman less so.
Do you know what Pickfords do today, by the way? What the company developed into? Barging? Or lorry transportation?

Or did I mislead now?

What a company develops into is entirely irrelevant to the debate. Many change completely over time.

And of course delivery by lorry is not the same as trucking as you well know.

And of course not actually adressing the post you claim to be responding too.

Steve

[Elamarna]

[QUOTE=Pierre;424078]

He did contradict Mizen. And he did not give the name of his wife and children at the inquest.

Mizen was sworn.

Pierre

Pardon Pierre, I may have missed something here.

Why should he give the names? What did it have to with the case?

Confused

Steve

[Sam Flynn]

those 'rootless cosmopolitans' the wandering Jews....

Off-topic, but that reminds me of Punch magazine's wonderful send-up of Hitler's ambassador to Britain, Joachim von Ribbentrop, whom they dubbed "The wandering aryan".

[Henry Flower]

[QUOTE=Elamarna;424084]

Pardon Pierre, I may have missed something here.

Why should he give the names? What did it have to with the case?

Confused

Steve

Could Pierre be implying that this confirms the non-incriminating reasoning behind his use of his 'alternative' name?

[Henry Flower]

Off-topic, but that reminds me of Punch magazine's wonderful send-up of Hitler's ambassador to Britain, Joachim von Ribbentrop, whom they dubbed "The wandering aryan".

Ha! I hadn't heard that. That's marvelous, Gareth.

Christer - for what it's worth I didn't find anything remotely offensive in your recalling an illustrative 'desensitisation' metaphor from the WWII death camps. Facts are facts, and you didn't phrase it disrespectfully as far as I could see.

[Joshua Rogan]

Do you know what Pickfords do today, by the way? What the company developed into? Barging? Or lorry transportation?

Not sure what you're getting at here...Pickfords were moving goods by barge in Victorian times.

[Joshua Rogan]

I am not sure what belonging to a Trades Union has to do with it?

He would not be a teamster, that is a union based in the USA and has not connection to the UK.. it's a minor point but important none the less.
it is likely neither occupation would have been in a trades union in 1888.

The Worshipful Company of Carmen - oldest transport organisation in the world, according to their website...

http://www.thecarmen.co.uk

[Pierre]

[QUOTE=Elamarna;424084]

Pardon Pierre, I may have missed something here.

Why should he give the names? What did it have to with the case?

Confused

Steve

Hi Steve,

No problem.

I wrote "And he did not give the name of his wife and children at the inquest."

Not as you wrote above, "the names".

Pierre