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Deadly occupations and serial murder

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  • Deadly occupations and serial murder

    Okay, let´s throw a little something into the Lechmere bonfire.

    Here´s a question for you all: are there any occupations that typically involve a raised level of criminal activity/serial murder?

    The question may seem an odd one, but it really isn´t.

    Earlier today, I posted a link to a documentary from last year:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEwLXwPZuh4

    It is a docu about how it has been revealed that long-haul truckers in the US are very common guests on death row. It is stated in the docu that:

    -There are 25 men, all former truckers, who are jailed for serial murder in the US.

    -There are around 500 unsolved murder cases where victims have been found dumped along the freeways of the US.

    -In these cases, 200 of the suspects are truck drivers.

    - The bulk of the victims are prostitutes, working the truck stops.

    I find this immensely interesting. It firmly establishes the truckers role as one that offers itself up to abductions, rape and murder. The figures blew me away.

    Oddly, this is not the one and only occupational category that has been connected to violent crime over the years. At the University of Windsor, criminology professor Amy Fitzgerald states that statistics show a clear link between slaughterhouses, butchery and brutal crime. It is, she says, an empirical fact. Whenever abbatoirs are introduced into a community, the levels of violent crime follows suit. It is speculated that a desensitation is what causes this.

    In this case, the link:

    https://eatingplantsdotorg.wordpress...violent-crime/

    is useful.

    But where is the applicability for the Lechmere case? Well, Lechmere was the equivalent of todays truckers, he too was in the goods transport business. He was exposed to prostitution along his routes. And he was involved with butchery, owing to his work, and possibly also to the Lechmere family tradition of processing horse meat.

    Of course, todays trucking is different from the carmanship of the East End in 1888. And of course, our society differs from theirs.

    But it seems that Lechmere was involved in the two occupations that are the only ones, as far as I can tell, that have been connected roughly to the types of crimes the Ripper made himself guilty of.

    Now, if I may be so bold, please do not offer the answer "So now every trucker is a serial killer?" "And every butcher hits the town, meatcleaver in hand, after working hours?"

    These facts are worthy of a much better and more profound discussion.

    Anybody?
    Last edited by Fisherman; 08-02-2017, 11:09 AM.

  • #2
    Hi Fisherman,



    That is without doubt the most desperate prosecution I have ever encountered against Cross/Lechmere.

    I recommend a dark room and soothing towels on your forehead.

    Regards,

    Simon
    Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.

    Comment


    • #3
      This looks like an interesting article, which provides some support for your argument: https://www.scopus.com/record/displa...862cf627f0803b

      The citation is Lynes and Wilson (2015).

      You would need to register with Scopus to gain full access.
      Last edited by John G; 08-02-2017, 11:33 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Peter Sutcliffe AKA The Yorkshire ripper was a truck driver at the time of his murders, plus i believe worked at one time in a mortuary. He was also a gravedigger a profession which may have been overlooked when looking for a serial killers job.

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Fish,

          the point about slaughter houses is well made and I've come across that fact before. Could you please tell us to what extent, exactly, was Lechmere 'involved' with butchery?

          My understanding - and I may well be wrong - is that truck drivers lose their moral compass so often because they live for long periods away from the constraints and normalising environment of family and home, they are unsettled by definition, they sleep in the cab where they park, they are always either leaving or ready to leave. They also (I remember reading) make frequent use of magazines that document the fun that to be had making use of ladies who take their clothes off.

          How would any of this be applicable to Lech, whose delivery routes cannot have been anything like a truck driver's in scope, and who as far as we know went home to his normalising family every day after work?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by John G View Post
            This looks like an interesting article, which provides some support for your argument: https://www.scopus.com/record/displa...862cf627f0803b

            The citation is Lynes and Wilson (2015).

            You would need to register with Scopus to gain full access.
            Oh dear, it appears the article is only available in abstract on Scopus.

            This is another piece of literature on the subject by the same author, entitled, The Road to Murder: Why Driving is the Occupation of Choice for Britain's Serial Killers. See: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...20kill&f=false
            Last edited by John G; 08-02-2017, 12:07 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              [QUOTE=Fisherman;423902]

              -There are 25 men, all former truckers, who are jailed for serial murder in the US.
              Deducing from 25 men in our time to Lechmere in 1888. Deducing from truckers who left home for days - weeks - months and travelled over vast areas to Lechmere who moved around within a few miles.
              -There are around 500 unsolved murder cases where victims have been found dumped along the freeways of the US.

              -In these cases, 200 of the suspects are truck drivers.
              Of course they are. The victims were dumped along the freeways where truck drivers work.

              - The bulk of the victims are prostitutes, working the truck stops.
              So they were overrepresented at truck stops. Lechmere had no truck stops.

              I find this immensely interesting. It firmly establishes the truckers role as one that offers itself up to abductions, rape and murder. The figures blew me away.
              You prefer to believe in a television program without knowing how the data used was constructed.

              Oddly, this is not the one and only occupational category that has been connected to violent crime over the years. At the University of Windsor, criminology professor Amy Fitzgerald states that statistics show a clear link between slaughterhouses, butchery and brutal crime. It is, she says, an empirical fact. Whenever abbatoirs are introduced into a community, the levels of violent crime follows suit. It is speculated that a desensitation is what causes this.

              In this case, the link:

              https://eatingplantsdotorg.wordpress...violent-crime/

              is useful.
              No commments.

              But where is the applicability for the Lechmere case? Well, Lechmere was the equivalent of todays truckers,
              I have pointed out the big differences between Lechmere and the US truckers to you as you can see above.

              he too was in the goods transport business.
              Ibid.
              He was exposed to prostitution along his routes.
              Everyone in Whitechapel was "exposed to prositution along their routes".
              And he was involved with butchery, owing to his work, and possibly also to the Lechmere family tradition of processing horse meat.
              That is the old hypothesis from 1888. A butcher must have done it since they were "butchered".

              Lechmere was not a butcher.

              Of course, todays trucking is different from the carmanship of the East End in 1888. And of course, our society differs from theirs.
              Suddenly you realized that.

              But it seems that Lechmere was involved in the two occupations that are the only ones, as far as I can tell, that have been connected roughly to the types of crimes the Ripper made himself guilty of.
              This is wrong. There are very few murders through history with all the characteristics of the murders in 88-89.

              Now, if I may be so bold, please do not offer the answer "So now every trucker is a serial killer?" "And every butcher hits the town, meatcleaver in hand, after working hours?"

              These facts are worthy of a much better and more profound discussion.

              Anybody?
              What you do here is you postulate a TYPE of person for which you have seen a television program and read an article and mix those two and then apply them theoretically to Lechmere. You create you own ideal type where you focus on two specific professions and forget the rest and then put these two together.

              1 serial killer trucker+1 serial killer butcher equals 1 serial killer Lechmere.

              That is your theoretical perspective. You apply it on the past. But the past is gone. I.e. all the sources you need to prove your idea about Lechmere is gone. So instead, you seem to use anything you can find.

              Pierre
              Last edited by Pierre; 08-02-2017, 12:12 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Truck driver Robert Ben Rhoades killed and dumped people in Texas, Utah, Mississippi, Illinois, and was finally arrested in Arizona - with a terrified woman handcuffed in the sleeping cab.

                That's some distance. And that's what gives them the means, the mentality, and the opportunity.

                If you want to compare Lechmere to a modern profession, he's no long-distance serial killing truck driver; he's the local milkman.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Fisherman View Post

                  Now, if I may be so bold, please do not offer the answer "So now every trucker is a serial killer?" "And every butcher hits the town, meatcleaver in hand, after working hours?"
                  Since my first three years out of school was as a butchers apprentice, and for the last twenty years I have driven an 18 wheeler, I guess my defense is totally shot....
                  Regards, Jon S.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Wickerman View Post
                    Since my first three years out of school was as a butchers apprentice, and for the last twenty years I have driven an 18 wheeler, I guess my defense is totally shot....
                    Stop playing games, Jon. Tell us where you buried them and we'll discuss life without parole. Otherwise.....

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      [QUOTE=Pierre;423923]
                      Originally posted by Fisherman View Post



                      Deducing from 25 men in our time to Lechmere in 1888. Deducing from truckers who left home for days - weeks - months and travelled over vast areas to Lechmere who moved around within a few miles.


                      Of course they are. The victims were dumped along the freeways where truck drivers work.



                      So they were overrepresented at truck stops. Lechmere had no truck stops.



                      You prefer to believe in a television program without knowing how the data used was constructed.



                      No commments.



                      I have pointed out the big differences between Lechmere and the US truckers to you as you can see above.



                      Ibid.


                      Everyone in Whitechapel was "exposed to prositution along their routes".


                      That is the old hypothesis from 1888. A butcher must have done it since they were "butchered".

                      Lechmere was not a butcher.



                      Suddenly you realized that.



                      This is wrong. There are very few murders through history with all the characteristics of the murders in 88-89.



                      What you do here is you postulate a TYPE of person for which you have seen a television program and read an article and mix those two and then apply them theoretically to Lechmere. You create you own ideal type where you focus on two specific professions and forget the rest and then put these two together.

                      1 serial killer trucker+1 serial killer butcher equals 1 serial killer Lechmere.

                      That is your theoretical perspective. You apply it on the past. But the past is gone. I.e. all the sources you need to prove your idea about Lechmere is gone. So instead, you seem to use anything you can find.

                      Pierre
                      I would have to say that this is a very good post with excellent analysis of the issues.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Fisherman View Post
                        And he was involved with butchery, owing to his work
                        Picking up meat and delivering it is no more being "involved with butchery" than a postman picking up a letter and delivering it is "involved in writing".

                        Is it even proven that Lechmere was "involved with delivering meat", or is that a supposition?
                        Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                        "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Isn't the argument about JtR being a butcher two fold? Thus, firstly it's argued that JtR had anatomical knowledge, which might point to a butcher. Secondly, a butcher or slaughterman are suggested on the basis that these are the type of occupations that JtR might be drawn to: as they would enable him to indulge his fantasies. See, for example, http://www.casebook.org/press_report...l?printer=true

                          However, Lechmere was not a butcher and therefore I don't see how either of these arguments apply to him.
                          Last edited by John G; 08-02-2017, 12:52 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hi

                            CL didn't use his job as an aid to killing. He didn't kill while he was out delivering. The point that has been made was about the likelihood of killing 'on the way to work.' Under time constraints imposed by needing to be somewhere at a certain time and with all the attendant risks of possibly turning up for work with a stray bloodstain. Also, if he hadn't seen Paul and afterwards Mizen, he could have faced one of his workmates saying ' hey Charlie, don't you pass down Bucks Row every morning just where that woman was found dead?'
                            Bury drove a cart. Issendschmidt was a butcher? What do we glean from those facts?

                            Regards

                            Herlock
                            Regards

                            Herlock






                            "Crime is common. Logic is rare. Therefore it is upon the logic rather than upon the crime that you should dwell.”

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              ...and of course the answers are mostly along the expected lines. One can only hope for so much!

                              One of the points made in the docu referred to is that an advantage for the truckers is that they can dump victims in various places, making them hard to detect. Since I accept that the Ripper and the Torso killer, something there is ample evidence for, it seems that the Torso murders took advantage from the same thing. The initial dumping was seemingly made where the river Wandle meets that Thames, but since that knowledge was spread, the killer chose new and varying places.

                              Gareth makes the point that a meat delivery man is no more tied to butchery than a postman is to writing. That is an interesting way to skew the perspectives: a postman is well aquainted with the letters.

                              The Broad Street depot was handling meat to a very large extent according to the historian from the docu, and this will mean that Lechmere handled animal body parts.

                              All in all, just like I said, Lechmere would have had ties to the only two occupations that are proven to be connected to violent crime and murder. That applies regardless of the desperation evinced about it.

                              It is probably just another coincidence, eh?

                              Comment

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