Is Kosminski still the best suspect we have?

[Fisherman]

Dahmer, Shawcross...apologies, you said one.

Monty

Are you referring to Dahmers masturbating in front of two boys on one occasion, and to Shawcross being found masturbating on a bridge over a canyon where a victim of his was lying?

I didnīt know that these men frequently masturbated in public, which was what I posed as a question. Did they? If so, I have either never read it or forgotten about it.

Both versions are possible, so you are going to have to tell me.

The best,
Fisherman

[Richard Dewar]

He Is the Only Suspect with Evidence Against Him

Kosminski is the only suspect for which there is any evidence linking him to the murders.

The evidence appears to be tangential - a mysterious identification by someone cited by two police officials.

As have been by others, we know of know difinitive evidence linking him to the murders. We cannot even be sure that the suspect was Aaron Kosminski - he might have been someone with a different name.

But this person, whoever he was, is the only individual where there appears to be contemporary evidence linking him to the case.

[RockySullivan]

Kosminski is the only suspect for which there is any evidence linking him to the murders.

The evidence appears to be tangential - a mysterious identification by someone cited by two police officials.

As have been by others, we know of know difinitive evidence linking him to the murders. We cannot even be sure that the suspect was Aaron Kosminski - he might have been someone with a different name.

But this person, whoever he was, is the only individual where there appears to be contemporary evidence linking him to the case.

And what is that evidence? If dahmer and shaw cross were caught masturbating in public on one occasion, there's a good chance it wasn't the only time. And if they were taking their habit to the streets that's a good indication they practiced a lot at home

[Richard Dewar]

And what is that evidence? If dahmer and shaw cross were caught masturbating in public on one occasion, there's a good chance it wasn't the only time. And if they were taking their habit to the streets that's a good indication they practiced a lot at home

The evidence is the witness identification cited by Anderson and Swanson. We don't know who the witness was or what the witness claimed to have seen the suspect do.

This is very scant - but it's better than we have against any other suspect.

[Fisherman]

And what is that evidence? If dahmer and shaw cross were caught masturbating in public on one occasion, there's a good chance it wasn't the only time. And if they were taking their habit to the streets that's a good indication they practiced a lot at home

The Shawcross masturbation thing was actually not in public - at least not the occasion I am speaking of. He was seen masturbating by a bridge, under which a victim of his was lying. I have the impression that he was reliving the kill, and that was made him masturbate. It was more of a coincidence that a policeman in a car happened to pass by as he did so, so there was seemingly not any intention on Shawcrossī behalf to show himself off.

Monty apparently knows about frequent occasions when Shawcross masturbated in public. Those are unknown to me so far.

The best,
Fisherman

[Fisherman]

The evidence is the witness identification cited by Anderson and Swanson. We don't know who the witness was or what the witness claimed to have seen the suspect do.

This is very scant - but it's better than we have against any other suspect.

Nobody saw any of the victims being killed. If Anderson was correct, then a jewish witness said that he had seen "Kosminski" in some context that supposedly was incriminating.
But what was that context?
Anderson says that the only person who ever had a good view of the murdered unhesitatingly identified him afterwards.
But as what?
The man seen with the woman who may or may not have been Kate Eddowes minutes before she was found slain?
If so, how is it a capital crime to speak to a woman at nighttime? That would have been what they had on him. And it would seem that the witness (Lawende) later identified ANOTHER man as the one he had seen in Church Passage.
It would be circumstantial evidence at best.

I much prefer Lechmere.
He was found alone by a freshly killed victim.
He didnīt give his true name to the police.
He seemingly lied his way past Mizen.
There are many anomalies attaching to him on the murder morning.

This too is circumstantial evidence. But it is much heavier than a sighting of a man close to a murder spot.

Saying that what we have on Kosminski is much better than what we have on any other suspect is simply not true. We donīt even know what it is we have on Kosminski in the first place. A suggested ID, yes - but in what context?

The best,
Fisherman

[Richard Dewar]

Nobody saw any of the victims being killed. If Anderson was correct, then a jewish witness said that he had seen "Kosminski" in some context that supposedly was incriminating.
But what was that context?
Anderson says that the only person who ever had a good view of the murdered unhesitatingly identified him afterwards.
But as what?
The man seen with the woman who may or may not have been Kate Eddowes minutes before she was found slain?
If so, how is it a capital crime to speak to a woman at nighttime? That would have been what they had on him. And it would seem that the witness (Lawende) later identified ANOTHER man as the one he had seen in Church Passage.
It would be circumstantial evidence at best.

I much prefer Lechmere.
He was found alone by a freshly killed victim.
He didnīt give his true name to the police.
He seemingly lied his way past Mizen.
There are many anomalies attaching to him on the murder morning.

This too is circumstantial evidence. But it is much heavier than a sighting of a man close to a murder spot.

Saying that what we have on Kosminski is much better than what we have on any other suspect is simply not true. We donīt even know what it is we have on Kosminski in the first place. A suggested ID, yes - but in what context?

The best,
Fisherman

Your observations about the weakness of the Kosminski identification are all valid. Yet we don't even have as much "evidence" against any other suspect.

[Monty]

Are you referring to Dahmers masturbating in front of two boys on one occasion, and to Shawcross being found masturbating on a bridge over a canyon where a victim of his was lying?

I didnīt know that these men frequently masturbated in public, which was what I posed as a question. Did they? If so, I have either never read it or forgotten about it.

Both versions are possible, so you are going to have to tell me.

The best,
Fisherman

Ah, once is acceptable normal behaviour.

Monty

[Harry D]

The whole Anderson thing seems a little too anti-Semitic for me. They are all "persons of interest" but all lack actual evidence so far.

That's quite a malicious allegation against a man who is not alive to defend himself. Anderson's belief in a Jewish Ripper was not completely unfounded, nor was his belief that the tight-knit Jewish community in Whitechapel would protect one of their own.

Also, am I the only one (probably) who dislikes the term 'anti-semitic'? Why should Jews have their own special word, especially when it's mainly used to defame anyone who dares to speak out against the culture? It instantly evokes images of Nazism & the Holocaust, thereby manipulating people's emotions and discrediting any kind of valid point. What's wrong with 'racist'?

[Fisherman]

Ah, once is acceptable normal behaviour.

Monty

That will have to stand for you, Monty. The fact remains that I said in my earlier post that I do not know of any serialist that frequently masturbated in public.

Then you tried to be smart and pointed out Dahmer and Shawcross - as examples of people who frequently masturbated in public. And you jestingly apologized for having supplied two men when I asked for only one.

And now, when the time for you to apologize for your mistake has arrived, you choose to make a suggestion that I would think masturbation in public an acceptable behaviour...?

Why would I? I donīt even think undressing in public is acceptable, Monty.

The best,
Fisherman

[GUT]

G'day Fisherman

How is

He was seen masturbating by a bridge, under which a victim of his was lying.

Not in public, if he is seen and is by a brdge what is that if not in public.

[Fisherman]

Your observations about the weakness of the Kosminski identification are all valid. Yet we don't even have as much "evidence" against any other suspect.

Actually, I think we do.

the best,
Fisherman

[Fisherman]

G'day Fisherman

How is



Not in public, if he is seen and is by a brdge what is that if not in public.

Itīs about intent, Gut, as far as Iīm concerned. Shawcross was alone when he started masturbating, and I think he wanted to stay alone.

I actually misremembered the whole thing to some extent - Shawcross was seen from a helicopter, not from a car. Hereīs the story about what the police helicopter men saw:

They flew low over Salmon Creek, scanning back and forth, alert for anything unusual. Suddenly they saw something near a bridge. They flew closer and saw what appeared to be a human figure lying splayed out and facedown on the surface of the ice. She was wearing a white top, like Felicia Stephens was reported to have worn when last seen, but nothing else.

They hovered for a closer look and made out a female with darkish skin but not black. It could not be Felicia Stephens, but they had three other missing women, so this could be one of them. But then they noticed a Chevy Celebrity on the bridge, so they radioed to patrol units on the ground to check it out. A large overweight man was there and he appeared to be urinating. Then he got into his car and drove away.

That man was Arthur Shawcross. He masturbated (way) over his victim, and he was caught out. He had no intention to invite the public.

The suggestion about Kosminski is that he did not mind doing it in public - on the contrary.

Different matters, as far as I can tell!

The best,
Fisherman

[GUT]

But we don't know if

Itīs about intent, Gut, as far as Iīm concerned. Shawcross was alone when he started masturbating, and I think he wanted to stay alone.

Applied to Koz.

[Fisherman]

But we don't know if




Applied to Koz.

No, we donīt! Of course, compulsive masturbation will be compulsive, and people suffering from it will masturbate no matter what. Thatīs what lies in the term.

But that was not the point I was making. I was making the point that much as Dahmer is known to have masturbated before to boys and therefore could have been said to have had the intent to be seen masturbating, Shawcross is another case altogether.

And I was making that point in defence of my statement that I know of no serialist that frequently masturbated in public.

It should all be very clear, shouldnīt it?

The best,
Fisherman