Is Kosminski still the best suspect we have?

[Simon Wood]

Hi Paul,

From your post #241—

" . . . it was a positive identification, so the police did confirm they had the right man . . . assuming it was Aaron Kosminski.

Care to elucidate?

Regards,

Simon

[Fisherman]

My "stance" is to stick to the facts. I just frown on unevidenced speculation.

Then you shouldn´t have a problem with my theory, which is good to know.

All the best,
Fisherman

[Fisherman]

These "circs" must not have been conclusive, perhaps only family gossip?

I think that the easiest way to understand how this works is to bring one of the three top suspects, Michael Ostrog into the discussion.

Why was HE given this status?

Was he pointed out by a witness, who had seen him close to one of the murder sites? Probably not, no.

What had Ostrog named, would in all probability be what had Issenschmidt named - somebody tipped the police off: "Yes, officer, and this man was a really odd customer, taking nightly strolls and there were rumours that he killed people, and he had a terrible knife, and he had this grim, determined expression of his face. You really need to nail him, all the neighborhood is terrified. He even told a woman that he was the Ripper, I swear!"

That, to my mind, would have been what put him on the map. And understandably, since he was nowhere near London, the police could not haul him in and question him, in which case they would have found out what he was actually about.

Why would this not be the case with Kosminski and Druitt too? If it happened to Issenschmid and Ostrog, why would it not happen to them?

Of course, somebody may say that there is no need to think that the three memoranda men were necessarily top suspects, but instead just given as examples of better suggestions than Cutbush.
If so, I´m fine with that. It fits the evidence much better - three men of whom tall tales were told, painting them out as worse and more homicidal than Cutbush, and therefore being recognized as better general types. But not having been subjected to any real investigation, leaving the men in the top with shady, shaky and unjust descriptions.

The best,
Fisherman

[Jonathan H]

I disagree.

I think you are being completely misled by a too narrow focus on the archived "memo".

If you step back and consider a wider range of contemporaneous sources you will see that this old canard--proposed by none other than a shifty Macnaghten in the official version, but not unofficial version of his Report--is historically unsustainable.

Montague Druitt, rightly or wrongly, was the solution of members his family, a Tory MP, the country's most famous writer, and a senior police administrator.

[Aaron] Kosminski (or David Cohen?) was the solution of the administrative head of C.I.D. and the operational head tasked with investigating the Whitechapel murders.

[Fisherman]

Jonathan H:

I disagree.

I know you do!

I think you are being completely misled by a too narrow focus on the archived "memo".

Hmm. But Issenschmid was not part of that memo, was he?

If you step back and consider a wider range of contemporaneous sources you will see that this old canard--proposed by none other than a shifty Macnaghten in the official version, but not unofficial version of his Report--is historically unsustainable.

In the sense that it is historically inaccurate, I very much agree. As for your take on things, with MacNaghten spreading more smoke than than the Ruhrgebiet, I am much less convinced. With respect, I think Andersons variety of the Ripper saga could be much enhanced if we were to accept that he knew about Kosminski in 1888, but cleverly hid his knowledge, if he was just covering up for Kos when saying that he died early after his incarceration and if he produced the Seaside identification just to throw us off the trail.
I need to read that book of yours and try to get a grip on your story, Jonathan. Whenever I am presented with chosen parts of it, I tend to think that there is too much interpretation involved with too little to go on.

Montague Druitt, rightly or wrongly, was the solution of members his family, a Tory MP, the country's most famous writer, and a senior police administrator.

... whereas others disagreed very much. You will realize that if I am not impressed by MacNaghtens position, the same will go for MP:s and writers - at least one of them will be more into fiction than fact. I don´t doubt as such that there were people in Druitt´s vicinity that suspected him of being the killer. But I equally don´t doubt that there were literally hundreds and thousands of people who suspected somebody they knew of the exact same thing. The Ripper deeds occupied the minds of the Victorians to an extreme degree. And just look at us - it hasn´t gone away!

[Aaron] Kosminski (or David Cohen?) was the solution of the administrative head of C.I.D. and the operational head tasked with investigating the Whitechapel murders.

Yes - and perhaps. I am a bit less certain about Swanson´s sentiments than I am of Andersons. But it matters little since I am convinced that Aaron Kosminski was not the Whitechapel killer anyway.

If I had a gun put to my temple and was forced to name either Kosminski or Druitt as the more probable Ripper, I actually think I would have gone with Druitt today - but yesterday it would have been Kosminski. And tomorrow is a new day.

If the man with the gun had told me that I needed to muster a more than two per cent certainty that either of the two was Jack, or he´d shoot, then we would have to continue or discussion in the afterworld.

The best,
Fisherman

[Damaso Marte]

You folks have spent this entire thread answering the wrong question.

Was Aaron Kosminsky Jack the Ripper? is one question. The answer to that question is most probably "no"...there's nothing specifically tying Aaron to any of the murders other than the fact that he was apparently a police suspect at the time. Like many on this forum, I think that Jack the Ripper's real name has never been posted on Casebook, and odds are its some random Whitechapel resident.

But that is not the question that the OP asked! The question that was actually asked was, to paraphrase, Of the named suspects, is Aaron Kosminsky the best?

I think that the answer is likely "yes". Aaron wins this tallest midget contest. He fits the most common profile of Jack the Ripper: "some random Whitechapel resident". You don't need to believe anything outlandish or improbable to believe that Aaron is the Ripper, which makes him different from a lot of other major suspects. I continue to think that the logistics necessary for Druitt to be the Ripper, navigate Whitechapel, and make it back to his cricket games falls under "outlandish and improbable", and the same goes for other Whitechapel outsider suspects. Likewise, he is better than the known murderer suspects (e.g. Koslowski) because you don't need to believe in a radical change of MO. As much as some here harp on the differences between Eddowes and Chapman, those two killings have a lot more in common than do poisonings.

[GUT]

You folks have spent this entire thread answering the wrong question.

Was Aaron Kosminsky Jack the Ripper? is one question. The answer to that question is most probably "no"...there's nothing specifically tying Aaron to any of the murders other than the fact that he was apparently a police suspect at the time. Like many on this forum, I think that Jack the Ripper's real name has never been posted on Casebook, and odds are its some random Whitechapel resident.

But that is not the question that the OP asked! The question that was actually asked was, to paraphrase, Of the named suspects, is Aaron Kosminsky the best?

I think that the answer is likely "yes". Aaron wins this tallest midget contest. He fits the most common profile of Jack the Ripper: "some random Whitechapel resident". You don't need to believe anything outlandish or improbable to believe that Aaron is the Ripper, which makes him different from a lot of other major suspects. I continue to think that the logistics necessary for Druitt to be the Ripper, navigate Whitechapel, and make it back to his cricket games falls under "outlandish and improbable", and the same goes for other Whitechapel outsider suspects. Likewise, he is better than the known murderer suspects (e.g. Koslowski) because you don't need to believe in a radical change of MO. As much as some here harp on the differences between Eddowes and Chapman, those two killings have a lot more in common than do poisonings.

G'day Damaso

No the original question was "Is he STILL the best"? and the answer has to be NO because for him to STILL be the best he would have had to have been the best, so we first must decide was he EVER the best, he certainly wasn't to MM.

[pinkmoon]

Mr Edwards has wrecked Kosminski as a suspect if anyone was to uncover any new info about Kosminski it would be thought of as here we go again.Poor Aaron was only of interest to the police because they were desperate so when he picked up a knife two years after the murders stopped he was looked at by the police purely because they had nothing else.If Mr lawende(not Mr lavender as the mail recently stated) had refused to indentify kosminski because he didn't won't his execution on his conscience then he is saying yes it was him I saw with eddowes now would the police have then left lawende and Kosminski in peace the answer is NO.Lastly the old argument if Kosminski was such a good bet why did sir Melville choose Druitt over him .

[Bridewell]

Hi Colin,

Because of the reluctant witness the ID confrontation did not enable the police to confirm they had the right man.

So the cops banged up Kosminski for life on the basis of exactly what?

Regards,

Simon

He was certified as insane wasn't he, Simon, not banged up by the cops?

[Bridewell]

Obviously "the Jewish Sunday" means Saturday.

Absolutely, and that must be the case because English courts do not sit on a Sunday.

[Trevor Marriott]

You folks have spent this entire thread answering the wrong question.

I think that the answer is likely "yes". Aaron wins this tallest midget contest. He fits the most common profile of Jack the Ripper: "some random Whitechapel resident". You don't need to believe anything outlandish or improbable to believe that Aaron is the Ripper, which makes him different from a lot of other major suspects. I continue to think that the logistics necessary for Druitt to be the Ripper, navigate Whitechapel, and make it back to his cricket games falls under "outlandish and improbable", and the same goes for other Whitechapel outsider suspects. Likewise, he is better than the known murderer suspects (e.g. Koslowski) because you don't need to believe in a radical change of MO. As much as some here harp on the differences between Eddowes and Chapman, those two killings have a lot more in common than do poisonings.

Questions for you
What is the most common profile?

Where did that profile emanate from?

If all of the victims were not killed by the same hand where does that common profile stand ?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00KNRE4NY

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00F4QS0H0

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00F4PH392

[David Andersen]

[QUOTE=Damaso Marte;317185]You folks have spent this entire thread answering the wrong question.


I continue to think that the logistics necessary for Druitt to be the Ripper, navigate Whitechapel, and make it back to his cricket games falls under "outlandish and improbable",

It has been shown that Druitt was easily capable of doing what you describe as outlandish and improbable.

[Paddy]

The Bell Club

I have shown this before but for the benefit of those who have not seen it here it is again.
Men involved were named as Phillip Michals, George McCloud, Rueben Michals, William Beaver, Joseph Garcia, Edward Moss Michals and Edward Cohen....

I am not sure if the name of Abrahams mentioned by the girls, was a surname or a first name in this news article dated June 1889. I couldn't find much on Edward Cohen.
The reason I sort of gave up on this was that the Michals had a brother called Abraham. Looking at the criminal records they were a dodgy lot !
However if it is a surname that makes it interesting, as it could possibly apply to Koz as his family did go by the name of Abrahams.
Probably not, but interesting all the same. It does show the unrest at that time.

Pat..........................

[Kosher Ripper]

Kosminski wasn't JUST a suspect! He was the PRIME suspect. The police had him in custody and he was identified in a police line up. He was let go because Schwatz refused to give evidence. Even so the police had him under 24 hour survailance so they knew. This case WAS solved 126 years ago but has been concealed for some reason.

[Simon Wood]

Sounds to me like a cover up by the Kosher Nostra.