Kosminski and Victim DNA Match on Shawl

[Roy Corduroy]

Good morning Jeff Leahy,

The only thing that doesnt seem to fit is the March 1889 reference and even that could be explained if Aaron was placed into a private asylum in Surrey..

It is said the man who was insane was placed in a private asylum in Surrey. And Martin Fido only checked the records at Colney Hatch…so perhaps he was looking in the wrong place? Just a thought

Perhaps he should have considered Aaron being placed in a private asylum March 1889, possibly in Surrey, and then being later released?

This makes no sense.

Aaron's family could not afford private treatment for him in 1890 and 1891, when he was taken to Mile End Workhouse. How did Aaron's family afford private treatment in 1889 then. What was different.

Roy

[Chris]

This makes no sense.

I think the asylum in Surrey comes from the articles on the murder by Henry Cox:

http://wiki.casebook.org/index.php/Henry_Cox

Personally, I doubt that Cox was referring to Aaron Kozminski.

[Fisherman]

Hello Christer,

As I thought (and as you thought too) the original Finnish newspaper report is, infact, a DIRECT Finnish translation of the Mail article.

The other link pertains to another crime, in Finland and the hope that DNA can so0lve it etc etc etc..
Shame.


best wishes

Phil

Okay, Phil - thanks for taking the trouble!

The best,
Fisherman

[Roy Corduroy]

Thanks Chris,

Yes I am aware of the Cox story, and I know you've done research in that area, which is appreciated. Stewart also posted this about another 'Surrey' story.

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?p=309044

My comment refers to shoehorning Aaron Kosminski into "a private asylum in Surrey in 1889," when in fact he had rights of settlement as a pauper in Mile End. Thats the part that makes no sense to me.

Roy

[Chris]

My comment refers to shoehorning Aaron Kosminski into "a private asylum in Surrey in 1889," when in fact he had rights of settlement as a pauper in Mile End. Thats the part that makes no sense to me.

OK. I just thought it might not have been evident where Surrey was coming from.

[Robert]

Does anyone know whether police officers were given a station reasonably near to where they lived? For instance, if, say, Amos was at his 1891 address in 1888, would this have meant that he worked at a station in the northern part of the area? I was wondering whether looking him up in the Middlesex electorals might be worthwhile.

[Robert]

On the other hand he might be in the Herts ones.

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

I know it's hard to believe in such an exact world as Ripperology, but someone may have confused Kosminski with Ostrog who, exactly three months to the day after the former's admission to Colney Hatch, was committed to Banstead Lunatic Asylum in Surrey, which received pauper lunatics from the county of Middlesex.

If they had both been in Banstead at the same time they would have had an awful lot to talk about.

Regards,

Simon

[Peter Griffith aka gryff]

If we accept that he walks Catherine into Mitre Square after the Lawende sighting at 1:34am, and he ceases his work and thinks about making his escape at.1:40am when PC Harvey walks into Church Passage, then he has six minutes in which to:

.... details of cuts

Even allowing for some of the cuts detailed above to have been applied with the same stroke, this is a phenomenal amount of butchery to perform within a 6-minute period.

And even if the Lawende sighting is wrong and he ignores PC Harvey approaching, so we allow him a full 12 minutes between PC Watkins' departure and return, there's still not enough time to do all of that and masturbate to conclusion, I would think.

Thanks for that detailed post Andy - I've been pondering that same time issue.

Dr. Frederick Gordon Brown's Post Mortem report on Eddowes: "It would take at least five minutes."

Dr. George William Sequeira. at Eddowes Inquest: "He agreed with the findings of Dr. Frederick Gordon Brown, but disagreed with Brown's belief that the killer displayed anatomical knowledge. "

Dr. George Bagster Phillips at the Annie Chapman inquest: "He thought he himself could not have performed all the injuries he described, even without a struggle, under a quarter of an hour."


The timings seem to make it difficult to fit in PC Simpson getting there before PC Watkins.

cheers, gryff

[Abby Normal]

wake me up when the DNA is verified independently

[Roy Corduroy]

Good morning Simon,

... someone may have confused Kosminski with Ostrog who, exactly three months to the day after the former's admission to Colney Hatch, was committed to Banstead Lunatic Asylum in Surrey, which received pauper lunatics from the county of Middlesex.

If they had both been in Banstead at the same time they would have had an awful lot to talk about.

Os: "Vatzematter you?"

Kos: "I want my dog back."

[Henry Flower]

Dr. Frederick Gordon Brown's Post Mortem report on Eddowes: "It would take at least five minutes."

Dr. George William Sequeira. at Eddowes Inquest: "He agreed with the findings of Dr. Frederick Gordon Brown, but disagreed with Brown's belief that the killer displayed anatomical knowledge. "

Dr. George Bagster Phillips at the Annie Chapman inquest: "He thought he himself could not have performed all the injuries he described, even without a struggle, under a quarter of an hour."


The timings seem to make it difficult to fit in PC Simpson getting there before PC Watkins.

On your last point, I quite agree. However, on the broader point, I've always had problems with some of the expert estimates of timings. I have never been able to understand why exactly a brutal hacker and slasher like JtR would have needed a whole quarter of an hour to do what he did to Chapman. Five minutes for Eddowes seems more reasonable. If Chapman, in the relative privacy of the back yard, needed quarter of an hour minimun, then Eddowes - out in the open - becomes impossible; no time for the editing of her face, let alone taking the runner from that table he carried into Mitre Square with him and using it to... catch his drift.

I don't think he had anatomical knowledge. I think certain things might be difficult for a layman to locate and remove - if that is their intention. But it might not be difficult to chance upon something and remove it without even knowing what it is you've removed, if you're just hacking for fun and grabbing and ripping, which the list of Eddowes' injuries seems to indicate.

But masturbation? Well again, the timing doesn't concern me - he may have been cocked and ready to shoot from the moment her head hit the cobbles. Who knows. If he was a masturbator, I imagine he was already as high as a kite from ripping her up and mutilating her face. It might have taken only another three or four seconds, who knows.

Not that I think any of that is necessarily how it played out.

[Simon Wood]

Good Morning Roy,

I was thinking more along the lines of—

"You've gotta be kidding! You were accused of being Jack the Ripper? Me too. Small world."

Regards,

Simon

[Amanda Sumner]

Of course. But - to say it one more time - the point is that if people do exercise their right not to buy the book, it's unreasonable for them to ask endless questions in the expectation that those who have bought it will go to the trouble of gratifying their curiosity.

And if you've been following the thread, you'll know the questions Phil Carter addressed to Mick Reed were only the latest in a long series of questions, most of them questions about the contents of the book, addressed to the world at large.

Are you suggesting that only those that have read the book can ask questions? As I previously said, those questions were as much to raise the bizarre nature of the claims as to seek logical answers.
There are none, of course.
In that, he was perfectly correct.

[Chris]

Are you suggesting that only those that have read the book can ask questions?

No. As I've explained several times, that's not what I'm saying at all.