Kosminski - Dead or Alive

[Fisherman]

Old cases and senior men.

We know Swanson had been relieved of his ovesight responsibilities once Warren departed. Anderson would have had new issues to deal with.

If the information they received came from what they considered a reliable source, I am sure they would have accepted it at face value.

In my experience, bosses may double check information when an issue is HOT/current - the devil is often in the details - but later other things take priority and they move on. They also have better things to do than second guess their subordinates or colleagues.

The man Sir RA and DSS thought was "Jack" was incarcerated, he wasn't going anywhere, they were told he was dead. No reason to spend more time on an old case.

We now want to know, they believed they knew all they needed to. For all that the Ripper case was notorious and still demanded attention from time to time - Mackenzie, Coles etc - I suspect that the focus of their issue was elsewhere by the early 1890s. They may even have resented the caal-backs to the case which were a distraction from new problems which they may have deemed more important.

Phil

The Ripper was incarcerated rather quickly according to Swanson, and he died shortly afterwards. The case would not have been "an old case", Phil. My own stance is that the Ripper was so rare a bird that no matter how old he, Anderson and Swanson grew, they would keep track of him! And therefore, they would make sure that if anything significant happened to him, they would be the first to be informed.
I cannot envisage them saying: "Who? Oh, the Ripper? Him? Dead, you say?" to anybody. They would have followed the growth of the manīs toenails, if they had the possibility.

So when you are sure that they would have accepted "at face value" a bid coming from someone "reliable" that the Ripper was dead, I must disagree with you, as you will understand. If the Ripper died soon after his incarceration - and that is what we are told! - then Anderson and Swanson were still very much in office! Anderson only retired from the Met in 1901, and Swanson waited two years further. And they were both tied to the case in everybodys mind - they would have made sure they were informed.

The suggestion of a lacklustre interest on their behalf is not something I can understand readily, and both you and I know that there has never been a more high-profile murder case in British history. Plus the killer was perceived as doing something nobody else had done before him. He would have been studied meticulously, no matter if he took off to la-la-land or not.

The best,
Fisherman

[Fisherman]

Hello Christer.

Would it be beyond reason to suggest that Swanson and Anderson stood to "Kosminski" as Littlechild stood to Tumblety, with respect to being dead?

But if that were what happened, it looks like rumour and speculation after the fact whilst casting about for a solution to a "cold case."

Cheers.
LC

I think these were very different matters, Lynn - I donīt see Littlechild being very keen on Tumblety at all; he was looking for somebody a bit more rough at the edges. So his erroneous belief that Tumblety did away with himself is not something I think Littlechild would have gone to any great lengths to have proven.
The asylum suspect referred to by Anderson and Swanson, though, was seemingly a man that was invested heavily in. I donīt see him being able to slip under the radar.

The best,
Fisherman

[mklhawley]

The man Sir RA and DSS thought was "Jack" was incarcerated, he wasn't going anywhere, they were told he was dead. No reason to spend more time on an old case.

Phil

Hi Phil,

One concern I have with this is, the Jack the Ripper case was the big news of the day, and Scotland Yard didn't look so good. I just don't see them casually ignoring the case like other cases.

Mike

[mklhawley]

No matter WHO they were hot on the trail for, Mike - if that somebody was known to have been out away in an asylum, then Swanson and Anderson would have kept track of the developments. And once the news reached them that he was dead, they would want confirmation of this.

I hope that sounds equally logical.

The best,
Fisherman

It does.

[Phil H]

Old cases and senior men.

We know Swanson had been relieved of his ovesight responsibilities once Warren departed. Anderson would have had new issues to deal with.

If the information they received came from what they considered a reliable source, I am sure they would have accepted it at face value.

In my experience, bosses may double check information when an issue is HOT/current - the devil is often in the details - but later other things take priority and they move on. They also have better things to do than second guess their subordinates or colleagues.

The man Sir RA and DSS thought was "Jack" was incarcerated, he wasn't going anywhere, they were told he was dead. No reason to spend more time on an old case.

We now want to know, they believed they knew all they needed to. For all that the Ripper case was notorious and still demanded attention from time to time - Mackenzie, Coles etc - I suspect that the focus of their issue was elsewhere by the early 1890s. They may even have resented the caal-backs to the case which were a distraction from new problems which they may have deemed more important.

Phil

[lynn cates]

suggestion

Hello Christer.

Would it be beyond reason to suggest that Swanson and Anderson stood to "Kosminski" as Littlechild stood to Tumblety, with respect to being dead?

But if that were what happened, it looks like rumour and speculation after the fact whilst casting about for a solution to a "cold case."

Cheers.
LC

[Fisherman]

So, if Anderson and Swanson were hot on the trail of Kosminski, they would have known. That sounds logical.

Mike

No matter WHO they were hot on the trail for, Mike - if that somebody was known to have been out away in an asylum, then Swanson and Anderson would have kept track of the developments. And once the news reached them that he was dead, they would want confirmation of this.

I hope that sounds equally logical.

The best,
Fisherman

[mklhawley]

Swanson was in charge of the case - or so we are told.
Anderson was his superior.

Would not one - and probably two - of these men demand to see the death certificate of Jack the Ripper? Iīd say that they would.

And if they DID - then Aaron Kosminski was reasonably not the Ripper.

The best,
Fisherman

So, if Anderson and Swanson were hot on the trail of Kosminski, they would have known. That sounds logical.

Mike

[Fisherman]

Swanson was in charge of the case - or so we are told.
Anderson was his superior.

Would not one - and probably two - of these men demand to see the death certificate of Jack the Ripper? Iīd say that they would.

And if they DID - then Aaron Kosminski was reasonably not the Ripper.

The best,
Fisherman

[Phil H]

No - I think Swanson or Anderson mau have been given what someone BELIEVED was correct information (perhaps because two individuals with similar names were confused).

If you believe that information comes from an authoritative source you don't tend to question it.

Phil

[Jonathan H]

Misinformed about the date of Kosminski''s death?

You mean like by somebody who knew he was still alive?

[Phil H]

I will please myself, thank you.

And I don't think Swanson was "muddled" at all. We just dopn't have the information on which to judge.

As we don't in regard to Druitt, with MM.

It is possible that Swanson has been misinformed about the date of "Kosminki's death, but if he was not thinking of Aaron, he may have been right.

phil

[Jonathan H]

Please yourself, but Macnaghten is not as muddled as the other two, that's the point..

[Phil H]

Not a question that interests me, Jonathan.

MM is no longer an omniscient creature to me (as he was before the far more important marginalia emerged). IMHO he was just as muddled as you say Sir RA and DSS were.

Phil

[Jonathan H]

You've missed my meaning:

Behind 'Kosminski' Mac knows details which match not this fictional variant but the real person who seems to have inspired him: Aaron Kosminski -- and not David Cohen.

He was alive and not dead.

He was out and about for a considerable time after the Kelly murder.

You have not tackled Mike's question: how did Macnaghten know that 'Kosminski' was alive and his superior and junior did not?