Kosminski - Dead or Alive

[Jonathan H]

Why else was Walter Andrews in Canada, since as Dew writes he was one of the three field detective-figures working the Whitechapel murders?

R. J. Palmer wrote some excellent articles for the sadly defunct 'Examiner' arguing, persuasively for me, that Walter Andrews was indeed sent to Canada by Anderson in order to do a background check on prime Ripper suspect, Dr. Francis Tumblety.

Interestingly this trip goes unmentioned by Littlechild because Dr T. had supposedly vanished in France, and maybe killed himself -- a much less embarrassing tale from the Yard's point of view than wasting tax-payer's money on a wild goose trip.

I wonder who thought that fib up?

Yes, the local press which favoured the Irish-Catholic sectrian divide, turned Andrews' trip into a scurrilous bit of business to do with the Parnell imbroglio, but that makes no sense as a plausible politcal scenario -- to put it mildly.

Of course if somebody has evidence that Andrews was not investigating Tumblety as part of the on-going Ripper investigation I'd love to see it?

That battle might be better going across to the Tumblety thread (God help us).

Mike's original question is why did Anderson (and perhaps Swanson) think that 'Kosminski' was deceased when Macnaghten knew -- correctly -- that he was alive?

This is echoed, of course, by Littlechild being told by somebody -- somebody he took seriously -- that Tumblety was [probably] deceased, by his own hand, soon after the Kelly murder too. Certainly inactive forever.

Sound familiar?

My last post was on the theme of 'very'; that Littlechild was writing to the famous writer who persistently claimed definitive knowledge of a sucided doctor suspect as the likely fiend -- and that the ex-polce chief did not contest that element of the scoop.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Wolf,

Good question.

Thanks to your research we know that Inspector Andrews didn't go anywhere near New York.

And why would he have bothered? Inspector Fred Jarvis was already there.

Regards,

Simon

[Wolf Vanderlinden]

Anderson not only personally contacted US Chiefs of Police about Tumblety, he sent Andrews to Canada for this reason.

Exactly what is the evidence that Anderson sent Andrews to Canada, actually southern Ontario, in connection with Tumblety? (emphasis on the word "evidence.")

Wolf.

[Jonathan H]

Very ...

Some researchers are not grasping the significance of to whom Littlechild wrote and revealed the Tumblety revelation.

It was the uber-famous George Sims, who outranked him in class and connections and supposedly Ripper truth.

This the Sims of the drowned, unemployed, affluent English mad doctor who was definitely the Ripper, or so Edwardians were misled to believe.

This is not a scoop which Sims wants to discover is all wet as it will be very embarrassing to him.

Littlechild has initiated this letter because Sims' suicided doctor bugs him, as it is not quite right.

Littlechild mistakely believes that 'Dr D', as Sims seems to have patronisingly truncated-disguised Druitt's name, is something fed to the writer by Anderson via Griffiths. This is, to Littlechild, either a separate, minor suspect or a garbled version of the real suspect -- a much more humiliating one for Anderson's CID than this 'Dr D' whom they supposedly nearly arrested.

So he sets Sims right about the real chief suspect -- a man who was arrested, not about to be.

Littlechild never corrects the status of the suicided doctor. He never says Dr D was really Dr T, but he was later cleared, or was not that strong a auspect anyhow.

How Littlechild would have loved to have downgraded the status of this suspect too, who jumped his bail, but he cannot because, yes he implies, Dr T was 'very likely' to have been the fiend, or the best suspect they had to be the fiend -- despite Tumblety not being known as a sadist
(meaning his sadism must have been concealed).

Littlechild also confirms to Sims another detail which bring Dr D and Dr T into alignment as probably the same suspect: it was believed that Tumblety killed himself after he made it to France.

I think this is a sincere comment by the ex-head of the Secret Dept. because he knows that if Sims wishes to he can easily find out about Tumblety's particulars. Moreover, in aniticpation of that inquiry, Littlechild is getting in first; he has been told by somebody that Dr T destroyed himself.

In 1907 Sims had written about 'two theories' at Scotland Yard about the Ripper: the drowned English doctor and the young, American medical student. Now Littlechild has strongly suggested to Sims, whom he would expect to broadcast this scoop, that they are the same suspect. For the American may have taken his own life too

Macnaghten's name does not appear in the Littlechild Letter, yet he shadows it. For he is the progenitor of Druitt as a doctor, and is Sims' source no doubt both the drowned doctor and the American medical student (who is young like Druitt, whereas the English doctor is middle-aged like Tumblety).

Interesting that Sims' 1915 and 1917 mentions of the Ripper shows the 'drowned doctor' intacticus. Tumblety has been kicked to the curb.

Did 'Tatcho' anxiously check with 'Mac' about this extraodinary scoop and get reassured, very smoothly and charmingly, that dear old Jack Littlechild was showing a faulty memory -- because this Tumblety of whom he writes had died of natural causes in 1903?

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

As Kosminski appears to have morphed into Tumblety, I would direct your attention to Trevor Marriott's article in Ripperologist 127, August 2012.

Regards,

Simon

[Abby Normal]

I would say that Tumblety, at one point at least, was a major suspect- a very likely one as Littlechild says. In fact of the 4 main contemperous(or near contemperous) suspects-Kosminski, Tumblety, Chapman and Druitt-Dr T is the only one it seems who came to the attention of the police and was suspected during the time of the murders (1888).

[Wickerman]

In the case of Tumblety, he was an American (Americanisms in the Dear Boss letter), was wearing an American slouch hat (Constables were on the lookout for this), .....

Awfully tall though wasn't he, for a Ripper suspect.
In most cases the 'suspect' seen was short, in the 5' 6-7" range.

[Fisherman]

Hi Fisherman,

You nailed part of it. In the case of Tumblety, he was an American (Americanisms in the Dear Boss letter), was wearing an American slouch hat (Constables were on the lookout for this), and exhibited erratic behavior with unfortunates (according to a few accounts). This is why he was brought into the station 'on suspicion'.

...but that's not what Littlechild was involved for back at Headquarters. Once they realized who they had, things changed.

Sincerely,

Mike

Admittedly, Mike, I employed the Anderson scale, since it seems easier to suss out.
It appears I will have to wait for you to bring the Littlechild scale on stage.

All the best,
Fisherman

[mklhawley]

My thought would be that men in general were all potentially the killer.

Men who were of foreing extraction were all useful bids.

Men who were of foreign extraction, and who had displayed some sort of violence at some time, preferably against women, were all good bids.

Men who were of foreign extraction, and who had displayed some sort of violence at some time, preferably against women, and who had a story of insanity to add to the picture, were all very good bids.

And men who were of foreign extraction, and who had displayed some sort of violence at some time, preferably against women, who had a story of insanity to add to the picture and who couuld be in one way or another connected to Whitechapel, were probably the Ripper. All of them.

I donīt think it is a iot harder than that.

The best,
Fisherman

Hi Fisherman,

You nailed part of it. In the case of Tumblety, he was an American (Americanisms in the Dear Boss letter), was wearing an American slouch hat (Constables were on the lookout for this), and exhibited erratic behavior with unfortunates (according to a few accounts). This is why he was brought into the station 'on suspicion'.

...but that's not what Littlechild was involved for back at Headquarters. Once they realized who they had, things changed.

Sincerely,

Mike

[Fisherman]

If Littlechild was directly involved in the Ripper inquiry then his use of 'very' would come, we might presume, from personal knowledge, and therefore be of some significance.
If Littlechild was not directly involved, then his use of 'very' is just repeating the opinions of others whom he trusts.

So, which is it, and therefore, how significant is his use of 'very'?

My thought would be that men in general were all potentially the killer.

Men who were of foreing extraction were all useful bids.

Men who were of foreign extraction, and who had displayed some sort of violence at some time, preferably against women, were all good bids.

Men who were of foreign extraction, and who had displayed some sort of violence at some time, preferably against women, and who had a story of insanity to add to the picture, were all very good bids.

And men who were of foreign extraction, and who had displayed some sort of violence at some time, preferably against women, who had a story of insanity to add to the picture and who couuld be in one way or another connected to Whitechapel, were probably the Ripper. All of them.

I donīt think it is a iot harder than that.

The best,
Fisherman

[mklhawley]

It depends if Tumblety's name came to attention via Special Branch sources..These are murky waters!

Yes, and Francis Tumblety was neighbors with Irish nationalists in New York City. There are a number of accounts of Tumblety interacting with Irish nationalists. Interestingly, Francis Tumblety escaped England (did not leave his usual Liverpool exit) in the very same way Irish nationalists escaped, through Folkstone Harbour.

Sincerely,

Mike

[Steve S]

If Littlechild was directly involved in the Ripper inquiry then his use of 'very' would come, we might presume, from personal knowledge, and therefore be of some significance.
If Littlechild was not directly involved, then his use of 'very' is just repeating the opinions of others whom he trusts.

So, which is it, and therefore, how significant is his use of 'very'?

It depends if Tumblety's name came to attention via Special Branch sources..These are murky waters!

[Wickerman]

If Littlechild was directly involved in the Ripper inquiry then his use of 'very' would come, we might presume, from personal knowledge, and therefore be of some significance.
If Littlechild was not directly involved, then his use of 'very' is just repeating the opinions of others whom he trusts.

So, which is it, and therefore, how significant is his use of 'very'?

[mklhawley]

It has been brought to my attention that rather significantly, perhaps, the 'very' has been omitted on page 213 of the new book Jack the Ripper: CSI Whitechapel where it states, '...and, later, John Littlechild - formerly of Special Branch - who named Dr Francis Tumblety as a "likely" suspect in a letter written in 1913...' People seem to just not like that pesky word 'very'.

Hi Stewart,

Now that's disheartening. The use of 'very' is quite specific, and to not use it seems to alter Littlechild's intention:

I never heard of a Dr D. in connection with the Whitechapel murders but amongst the suspects, and to my mind a very likely one, was a Dr. T. (which sounds much like D.) He was an American quack named Tumblety and was at one time a frequent visitor to London and on these occasions constantly brought under the notice of police, there being a large dossier concerning him at Scotland Yard.

Sincerely,

Mike

[Stewart P Evans]

'Very'

Why do people always leave out the 'very' from Littlechild's description of Tumblety as a 'very likely one'?

It has been brought to my attention that rather significantly, perhaps, the 'very' has been omitted on page 213 of the new book Jack the Ripper: CSI Whitechapel where it states, '...and, later, John Littlechild - formerly of Special Branch - who named Dr Francis Tumblety as a "likely" suspect in a letter written in 1913...' People seem to just not like that pesky word 'very'.