A Case of Misattribution?

[Roy Corduroy]

Ah, statistics!

Kill me now.

No you are spared, 007

These aren't statistics. These are official records. Useful for this thread, and for Lynn's One size fits all thread.

Registered Deaths of Female Adults (Ages 20 - xx) throughout England, Classified as 'Murder', by way of 'Cut Throat':

1886 -3

1887 - 9

1888 - 15

1889 - 6

1890 -7

Do you see it? The sudden spike in the number of women in England murdered by cut throat in the year 1888 AD.

Now that wasn't so bad was it.

Roy

[Trevor Marriott]

No you are spared, 007

These aren't statistics. These are official records. Useful for this thread, and for Lynn's One size fits all thread.

Registered Deaths of Female Adults (Ages 20 - xx) throughout England, Classified as 'Murder', by way of 'Cut Throat':

1886 -3

1887 - 9

1888 - 15

1889 - 6

1890 -7

Do you see it? The sudden spike in the number of women in England murdered by cut throat in the year 1888 AD.

Now that wasn't so bad was it.

Roy

Perhaps someone should look up the figures for the ensuing years going into modern day times. For both females and males might be interesting to compare?

[Simon Wood]

Hi Kronsteen,

Yes, the upward national trend had not escaped me.

Was 1888 the year they first put fluoride in drinking water?

Regards,

Simon

[Monty]

I can see why these stats unnerve you Simon, seeing as it goes against your pet theory and all.

I suggest you look away now, and Trevor.

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?p=180312#post180312

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?p=180478#post180478

You see, if you are going to provide an arguement, tis always best to have something of substance supporting your arguement. It bodes better than interpretation.

Dead men and women don't lie.

Monty

[Simon Wood]

Hi Monty,

I've never been unnerved by a statistic.

Bored yes, but never unnerved.

Regards,

Simon

[Monty]

Hi Monty,

I've never been unnerved by a statistic.

Bored yes, but never unnerved.

Regards,

Simon

I get a similar thing with pure speculation. Then y'all go and dress it up as fact which does stimulate me again, so you kinda get away with it.

Monty

[lynn cates]

1/3

Hello Neil. Thanks.

You do agree, then, that just under 1/3 of English adult female deaths in 1888 were by cut throat?

So I thank you and Colin once again.

Cheers.
LC

[Bridewell]

I dont have a lot of time so this will be a brief reply. I am sorry but I still disagree with you. Yes, the cut was less deep, but in general character it was similar. I have explained other reasons for the difference above. Incidentally, I am of the opinion that Stride was interrupted by Schwartz, not Diemshitz. To my way of thinking, this should be obvious... but others do not seem to agree with me. We know that a man was seen attacking Stride. I would call this "interruption." If this man was the killer, as I believe, then he would obviously worry that Schwartz would go get a policeman. But he couldn't let Stride live to identify him. So he drags her into the alley, cuts her throat quickly, and bolts. To me this is common sense, and is "consistent with the evidence.

Hi Robhouse,

But he couldn't let Stride live to identify him.

Especially if she knew him. Your post makes a lot of sense to me, for what it's worth.

Regards, Bridewell.

[lynn cates]

math

Hello Roy. Given the mathematical turn of this thread, look closely.

1886 -3

1887 - 9

1888 - 15

What do you notice? Well, from 1887 to 1888, there was a 66.66% increase.

But from 1886 to 1887 there was a 300% increase!!!!

So the real "spike," percentage wise, came in 1887, NOT 1888.

How can a Jackster account for that?

Cheers.
LC

[Bridewell]

Percentages

Hello Roy. Given the mathematical turn of this thread, look closely.

1886 -3

1887 - 9

1888 - 15

What do you notice? Well, from 1887 to 1888, there was a 66.66% increase.

But from 1886 to 1887 there was a 300% increase!!!!

So the real "spike," percentage wise, came in 1887, NOT 1888.

How can a Jackster account for that?

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn,

I think that 1886 to 1887 is a 200% increase, not 300% (6 would have been a 100% increase). Whichever way you look at it 1888 is a 400% increase over 1886.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Roy Corduroy]

Oh, Okay so you want to play shuffle the numbers around?

1888 - 15

1889 - 6

1890 -7


Why the sudden drop off afte ... no wait, Robin, I see Batman's getting bored.

I've never been unnerved by a statistic.

Bored yes

He insists these are statistics anyway, not official records. Another Clew. So whatever yall are cooking up in the Bat Cave, just go with it.



Roy

[Michael W Richards]

I am sorry, but I do not agree with this. The cut to Stride's throat is entirely consistent with the throat cuts to the other victims. They are all made from left to right, commencing under the angle of the left jaw. The cut to Eddowes throat likewise severed the vessels on the left side of the throat, but only partly cut the vessels on the right... just like Stride. Granted, in some of the other cases, the vessels on both sides were severed, but in the Stride case, we are under the assumption that the killer was interrupted, so did not perform any mutilations. And the attempt to sever the head, which is evident in the Chapman murder for example, should fall under the category of mutilation.

RH

Hi Robhouse,

I think I can see the problem Rob, above in bold. Your position above is only viable if your "assumption" of an interruption is valid. That is not something that the physical evidence asserts though, the missing mutilations are only missing if the same man killed the first 3 women. If your case rests on the hand used to cut the throat, thereby dictating the direction of the cut, Id say you are playing a longshot.

Right handed people arent that rare.

Best regards,

Mike R

[Michael W Richards]

Put more simply: Approximately 16 women were murdered in London's metropolis, in 1888.


Now, with that in mind, was throat cutting THAT common?

Monty

I used just 2 sections of your post Monty to ask a few questions.

What of the number of attacks to the throat with knives, suicide by slitting ones own throat, what are the comparative numbers for murders by other means...like with a lead pipe, or a garrote or a screwdriver?

After all, we do have 5 Canonicals killed by throat cuts in 3 months and we have no proof that they were connected to the same killer. We also have to my count 2 suicides by slit throat, male and female, and we have 1 torso that could well have been killed by slit throat during the same period. Not to mention all knife attacks for the year.

Best regards,

Mike R

[Abby Normal]

Hello Gary,

I dont have a lot of time so this will be a brief reply. I am sorry but I still disagree with you. Yes, the cut was less deep, but in general character it was similar. I have explained other reasons for the difference above. Incidentally, I am of the opinion that Stride was interrupted by Schwartz, not Diemshitz. To my way of thinking, this should be obvious... but others do not seem to agree with me. We know that a man was seen attacking Stride. I would call this "interruption." If this man was the killer, as I believe, then he would obviously worry that Schwartz would go get a policeman. But he couldn't let Stride live to identify him. So he drags her into the alley, cuts her throat quickly, and bolts. To me this is common sense, and is "consistent with the evidence."

In the case of Chapman's murder, Dr. Phillips reported the "appearance as if an attempt had been made to separate the bones of the neck." Also, the cut to the throat went all the way around the neck. To me this goes beyond simply a means of effecting murder, and suggests the killer wanted to decapitate the victim. Hence it is in the category of post-death mutilation.

RH

Totally agree

[lynn cates]

oops

Hello Colin. Thanks. A faux pas.

Still, a 200% increase should raise the eyebrows more than a 66.66% increase.

Why compare 1886 to 1888? What has that to do with a sexual serial killer active in 1888?

Cheers.
LC