Koz - No First Name in Marginalia

[Simon Wood]

Hi Paul,

We can argue absolutely anything. And we do. It's the beauty of Ripperology.

Anderson pointed the finger at an unnamed low-class Polish Jew.

Swanson's end-paper suspect was a Jew named Kosminski, which is generally accepted as lending credibility to Anderson.

Putting Anderson and Swanson together we arrive at a Polish Jew named Kosminski, but, according to Martin, not necessarily Aaron Kosminski, the only person of that surname found in the LVP asylum records.

By a curious coincidence MM's Polish Jew was also named Kosminski. But, following Martin's reasoning, he also need not necessarily have been Aaron.

So perhaps the time has come to belatedly exonerate Aaron Kosminski and allow him to rest in peace.

Regards,

Simon

[Trevor Marriott]

How I wish that you had answered it. Sadly, you haven't. Nor will you. Because you can't.

You really are on another planet. You cant give up on this now you have to much riding on keeping Kosminki as an active suspect. Even Fido eliminated Aaron Kosminski.

You see, you like others way back in the 70`s and the 80`s firmly nailed your colours to the mast as far as suspects and connecting evidence to the point of publishing books and appearing in documentaries

Now in later years much of what has been written or as you would say postulated is now being challenged and in some cases has led to major issues being totally disproved leaving you and others clinging to outdated theories some of which are nothing more than wild speculative and uncorroborated which you continually prop up with lenghty written ramblings which conatin nothing more than your opinions.

You cant and wont accept change well you are soon going be left on your own because people are now realising that all that has previoulsy been written may not be as accurate as they have been led to beleive.

Its sad that logical reasoning is obviousy not part of your makeup so there is no point in contiuning to argue with you when you are like others continue to look
at this through rose tinted spectacles fitted with blinkers.

I wil not now enagage in any further post on this topic there is nothing more to say. I wil let the results of my invesigation do the talking for me when published.

[Monty]

Hi Trevor,

Swanson was relieved of his "eyes and ears" brief in December 1888.

Regards,

Simon

I thought it was October 88 Simon, however he was still associated with the case until 1896. At least that is his final entry, 18th October 1896. This in regards to Henry Moores report upon a Jack the Ripper letter, Swanson writes -

"In my opinion the handwritings are not the same. I agree as A. I beg that the letter may be put with similar letters. Its circulation is to be regretted.

Donald S. Swanson"

This is an indication Swanson was involved with the case after the alleged ID parade and was still refered to right up to the end. He certainly was on the circulation list.

Monty

[PaulB]

Hi Paul,

We can argue absolutely anything. And we do. It's the beauty of Ripperology.

Anderson pointed the finger at an unnamed low-class Polish Jew.

Swanson's end-paper suspect was a Jew named Kosminski, which is generally accepted as lending credibility to Anderson.

Putting Anderson and Swanson together we arrive at a Polish Jew named Kosminski, but, according to Martin, not necessarily Aaron Kosminski, the only person of that surname found in the LVP asylum records.

By a curious coincidence MM's Polish Jew was also named Kosminski. But, following Martin's reasoning, he also need not necessarily have been Aaron.

So perhaps the time has come to belatedly exonerate Aaron Kosminski and allow him to rest in peace.

Regards,

Simon

Hi Simon
Actually, the days of arguing about almost anything have long gone. The demands for facts, which a whole bunch of very able researchers, like Rob Clack, Debra Arif, John Bennett, Tom Wescott, 'Monty', and a veritable host of others work so hard to provide, mean that we must all rigorously apply the proper rules of research and assessment. Because if we don't, we get what I genuinely regret having to describe as the tosh Trevor is spouting.

However, Anderson pointed the finger at an unnamed Polish Jew, Macnaghten referred to a Polish Jew called 'Kosminski' a 'strong suspect', and the probability advanced by Martin was that Anderson's unnamed Polish Jew was the 'strong suspect 'Kosminski'. The Swanson marginalia, emerging after the publication of Martin's book, identified Anderson's suspect as 'Kosminski'. A search of asylum records and BDMs long ago established that there was only one 'Kosminski' in the asylum records - Aaron Kosminski. He fits the scant criteria supplied by Anderson, right down to his masturbation corresponding with the 'utterly unmentionable vices' referred to by Anderson and 'solitary vices' mentioned by Macnaghten.

Why would anyone 'exonerate' Aaron Kosminski? Unless, as Martin argues, he was a suspect who was confused with another suspect who was Jack the Ripper (which still leaves Aaron as having been suspected), but let's not no doubt that route.

[Monty]

You really are on another planet. You cant give up on this now you have to much riding on keeping Kosminki as an active suspect. Even Fido eliminated Aaron Kosminski.

You see, you like others way back in the 70`s and the 80`s firmly nailed your colours to the mast as far as suspects and connecting evidence to the point of publishing books and appearing in documentaries

Now in later years much of what has been written or as you would say postulated is now being challenged and in some cases has led to major issues being totally disproved leaving you and others clinging to outdated theories some of which are nothing more than wild speculative and uncorroborated which you continually prop up with lenghty written ramblings which conatin nothing more than your opinions.

You cant and wont accept change well you are soon going be left on your own because people are now realising that all that has previoulsy been written may not be as accurate as they have been led to beleive.

Its sad that logical reasoning is obviousy not part of your makeup so there is no point in contiuning to argue with you when you are like others continue to look
at this through rose tinted spectacles fitted with blinkers.

I wil not now enagage in any further post on this topic there is nothing more to say. I wil let the results of my invesigation do the talking for me when published.

I cant wait.

Monty

[PaulB]

You really are on another planet. You cant give up on this now you have to much riding on keeping Kosminki as an active suspect. Even Fido eliminated Aaron Kosminski.

You see, you like others way back in the 70`s and the 80`s firmly nailed your colours to the mast as far as suspects and connecting evidence to the point of publishing books and appearing in documentaries

Now in later years much of what has been written or as you would say postulated is now being challenged and in some cases has led to major issues being totally disproved leaving you and others clinging to outdated theories some of which are nothing more than wild speculative and uncorroborated which you continually prop up with lenghty written ramblings which conatin nothing more than your opinions.

You cant and wont accept change well you are soon going be left on your own because people are now realising that all that has previoulsy been written may not be as accurate as they have been led to beleive.

Its sad that logical reasoning is obviousy not part of your makeup so there is no point in contiuning to argue with you when you are like others continue to look
at this through rose tinted spectacles fitted with blinkers.

I wil not now enagage in any further post on this topic there is nothing more to say. I wil let the results of my invesigation do the talking for me when published.

I've told you loads of times, I have no colours nailed to any masts, and that accusing people of bias as you do is the cheapest of all shots, and usually the one taken by people whose armory has precious little in it. As for the rest of your nonsense, we can let that pass. People know where you're coming from and can see through your bluster. But if my long, rambling posts devoid of anything but personal opinions have put and end to your nonsence on this topic, I can but say....... Yipppeeee!

[Trevor Marriott]

I've told you loads of times, I have no colours nailed to any masts, and that accusing people of bias as you do is the cheapest of all shots, and usually the one taken by people whose armory has precious little in it. As for the rest of your nonsense, we can let that pass. People know where you're coming from and can see through your bluster. But if my long, rambling posts devoid of anything but personal opinions have put and end to your nonsence on this topic, I can but say....... Yipppeeee!

Well I might just come back just to annoy you !

Oh and I did notice that you avoided any comment on the definition of "exonerated" I will repeat it
"FREE OF BLAME"

[Simon Wood]

Hi Paul,

I can't get the hang of this quote business, so please bear with me.

In answer to Jonathan H observing that "Martin Fido thought Anderson was unlikely to mean Aaron Kosminski as his suspect because he was sectioned too late" you replied, "Indeed he did. And does."

You just wrote—

" . . . the probability advanced by Martin was that Anderson's unnamed Polish Jew was the 'strong suspect 'Kosminski'. The Swanson marginalia, emerging after the publication of Martin's book, identified Anderson's suspect as 'Kosminski'. A search of asylum records and BDMs long ago established that there was only one 'Kosminski' in the asylum records - Aaron Kosminski. He fits the scant criteria supplied by Anderson, right down to his masturbation corresponding with the 'utterly unmentionable vices' referred to by Anderson and 'solitary vices' mentioned by Macnaghten."

Your answer implies that Anderson was in fact referring to Aaron Kosminski.

I realise I'm asking the wrong person, but why would Martin suggest that Anderson's suspect was unlikely to have been Aaron Kosminski?

One last question.

Why are you so vested in Sir Robert Anderson having told the truth about the Ripper?

Regards,

Simon

[PaulB]

Well I might just come back just to annoy you !

You really know how to hurt a guy.

Oh and I did notice that you avoided any comment on the definition of "exonerated" I will repeat it
"FREE OF BLAME"

Yes, I know what 'exonerated' means. However, the point you naturally keep avoiding is that Macnaghten only re-assessed the information available to him and exonerated Kosminski and Ostrog as far as his evaluation was concerned. He makes that very, very clear. You also avoid that he said he felt 'inclined' to exonerate; leaning towards an action is not taking that action. And you insist on misinterpreting him as meaning that he exonerated them in the real world. He didn't. But you know all this. You know your argument is a nonsense.

[Bridewell]

Hi Trevor,

Swanson was relieved of his "eyes and ears" brief in December 1888.

Regards,

Simon

In that case, guv'nor, I stand corrected. Apologies on that point, Trevor.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Simon Wood]

Eyes and Ears

Hi All,

House of Commons Parliamentary Papers.

Departmental Committee upon Metropolitan Police Superannuation, 29th November 1889.

Metropolitan Police Commissioner James Monro was the questioner in this exchange—

2251: "You were employed in the Whitechapel cases?"

[Swanson] "Yes."

2252: "What were your hours then?"

[Swanson] "I had to be at the office at half-past 8 in the morning; then I had to read through all the papers that had come in, which took me till 11 pm., and sometimes 1 and 2 in the morning; then I had to go to Whitechapel and see the officers—generally getting home between 2 and 3 am."

2253: "How long did that go on?"

[Swanson] "That went on from September till December."

Regards,

Simon

[PaulB]

Hi Paul,

I can't get the hang of this quote business, so please bear with me.

In answer to Jonathan H observing that "Martin Fido thought Anderson was unlikely to mean Aaron Kosminski as his suspect because he was sectioned too late" you replied, "Indeed he did. And does."

You just wrote—

" . . . the probability advanced by Martin was that Anderson's unnamed Polish Jew was the 'strong suspect 'Kosminski'. The Swanson marginalia, emerging after the publication of Martin's book, identified Anderson's suspect as 'Kosminski'. A search of asylum records and BDMs long ago established that there was only one 'Kosminski' in the asylum records - Aaron Kosminski. He fits the scant criteria supplied by Anderson, right down to his masturbation corresponding with the 'utterly unmentionable vices' referred to by Anderson and 'solitary vices' mentioned by Macnaghten."

Your answer implies that Anderson was in fact referring to Aaron Kosminski.

I realise I'm asking the wrong person, but why would Martin suggest that Anderson's suspect was unlikely to have been Aaron Kosminski?

One last question.

Why are you so vested in Sir Robert Anderson having told the truth about the Ripper?

Regards,

Simon

When he began writing his book, Martin assessed the information available to him and concluded that Anderson’s unnamed Polish Jew was to be identified with the suspect called ‘Kosminski’ by Macnaghten, a connection which hitherto nobody had made, Don Rumbelow actually making a strong case for Anderson’s suspect being Pizer, which was, until Martin’s book in 1987, the prevailing opinion. Having made the connection with Macnaghten’s ‘Kosminski’, Martin undertook a search of the asylum records in the hope of identifying him. When, eventually, he found Aaron Kosminski he concluded that he was a harmless imbecile who couldn’t have been the Ripper.

In responding to Jonathan I was agreeing that Martin discounted Aaron Kosminski, when writing the second piece I was referring to Martin's original groundbreaking connection of Anderson's unnamed suspect with Macnaghten's 'Kosminski'.

Martin, who believes that Anderson’s suspect was the Ripper returned to the conclusion he had earlier reached, that Anderson’s suspect was in the asylum under the name David Cohen, and he suggested a scenario whereby two suspects, David Cohen and Aaron Kosminski, became confused. We need not go into that, but I differ from Martin in that I do not and never have accepted that Anderson’s suspect was Jack the Ripper, therefore I don’t think Aaron Kosminski need be dismissed as Anderson’s suspect; as far as I am concerned, Aaron Kosminski could have been Anderson’s suspect and Anderson was simply wrong about him being the Ripper. The problem is that I don’t know the full extent of the evidence on which Anderson based his conclusion, therefore I can’t evaluate and assess it, and I can’t say whether he was likely to have been right or wrong. And, sadly, neither can anyone else.

Whether or not Anderson told the truth, the fact is that we don't have sufficient information on which to form any hard and fast judgement, but the balance of probability favours him doing so, both because born again evangelical Christians tend to have a high regard for the truth as it is a basic and fundamental tenet of their fundamentalism, and because I know of no reason to suppose that he lied. But I have no vested interest in him telling the truth or in him lying. In fact, if anything, I am inclined to think he was telling a truth but was wrong in his conclusion. As said, though, none of us know what evidence he based his conclusion on.

However, our source materials are important and need to be treated with professionalism and respect, neither being apparent in some of the arguments being advanced here. That is my concern.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Paul,

Sir Robert Anderson's evangelical Christianity and high regard for the truth has little to do with anything. He was in the wrong profession to adhere to such principles.

I'm more interested in your "balance of probability" which makes him mistaken but at the same time telling the truth.

Who, or what, steered him wrong?

Regards,

Simon

[Scott Nelson]

If Aaron was the Kosminski referred to, probably his family.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Scott,

Would you care to explain?

Regards,

Simon