The Jewish Standard Friday 14 November 1910

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

It was already given to you.

From a report of Inspector Helson dated 7th September 1888:

"...a man named Jack Pizer, alias Leather Apron, has, for some considerable period been in the habit of ill-using prostitutes in this, and other parts of the Metropolis"...

The detectives searched with unusual diligence, but could find positively nothing against him. And this is not surprising considering that he is not "Leather Apron," at least not "Leather Apron" who has been the terror and blackmailer of the women of Whitechapel.

(The Star, 12 September 1888)


The man Pizer, who was arrested on suspicion of being connected with the murder of Annie Chapman in Hanbury-street, and who gave a satisfactory account of himself, complained to Mr. Lushington that, since he was released from custody, he had been subjected to great annoyance.

Only that morning a woman accosted him in the street, and after calling him "Old Leather Apron" and other insulting expressions, struck him three blows in the face.

Mr. Lushington told Pizer he could have a summons against the person who had assaulted him.

(Manchester Evening News, 5 October 1888)


It seems Pizer was assaulted by a gentile woman.

It also seems that in spite of all the accusations made against him, he was never charged with extortion or assault of any of his accusers.

That doesn't look like proof.

[Fiver]

Where is the proof that John Pizer was Leather Apron?

It was already given to you.

From a report of Inspector Helson dated 7th September 1888:

"...a man named Jack Pizer, alias Leather Apron, has, for some considerable period been in the habit of ill-using prostitutes in this, and other parts of the Metropolis"...

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

This challenge is so easy.

From a report of Inspector Helson dated 7th September 1888:

"...a man named Jack Pizer, alias Leather Apron, has, for some considerable period been in the habit of ill-using prostitutes in this, and other parts of the Metropolis"...

Pizer was a Polish Jew.

Job done.

Where is the proof that John Pizer was Leather Apron?

[Herlock Sholmes]

I repeat the challenge: where is the evidence that Polish Jews ever attacked gentile women in the East End of London in the late nineteenth century?

It is a straightforward question.

This challenge is so easy.

From a report of Inspector Helson dated 7th September 1888:

"...a man named Jack Pizer, alias Leather Apron, has, for some considerable period been in the habit of ill-using prostitutes in this, and other parts of the Metropolis"...

Pizer was a Polish Jew.

Job done.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

I repeat the challenge: where is the evidence that Polish Jews ever attacked gentile women in the East End of London in the late nineteenth century?

It is a straightforward question.

[Herlock Sholmes]

It has been alleged that the Whitechapel Murderer was a Polish Jew.

It has also been alleged that the man seen attacking Stride in Whitechapel was a Polish Jew.

I repeat the challenge: where is the evidence that Polish Jews ever attacked gentile women in the East End of London?

Okay, so I see that, once again, you are not prepared to answer any of my questions, that you can't tell me what's so special about Polish Jews and that you clearly have no evidence to support any of the wild and crazy statements you've been making in this thread.

I do love the challenge you've set me, though, but I first need to understand exactly what I'm looking for. I don't want to find a Polish Jew who has attacked women only for that to be disqualified because it's not in the right area or time period or for some other reason.

So can you clarify for me what you are asking.

In the challenge: "where is the evidence that Polish Jews ever attacked gentile women in the East End of London?" I note that there is no time frame stated.

This is confusing because when I provided examples of multiple serious crimes committed by religious Jews you chastened me by saying: "This is just a gentle reminder that we are discussing the Jewish community in Whitechapel in 1888."

But that was nonsense was it? We're not talking about just 1888? Is that right? Other years are acceptable too are they? And we're talking about the East End, not just Whitechapel?

Please give me the earliest and latest years in which it is acceptable for me to find an attack on a gentile woman by a Polish Jew and explain why you will reject any examples from before and after those years.

Please also define for me "the East End". Where does it start and end? I mean, if I find an example from Hackney or Leyton, will those suffice? What about further out?

There's no point me taking the time to provide you with examples only for you to dismiss them because they don't fall into the random parameters you've set.

Further, can you clarify whether I need to find examples of women being attacked on a Saturday by Polish Jew who went to synagogue that morning?

Because it seems to me that the statement we are considering is your claim that: "People who attended synagogue on Saturday did not do what Kosminski is alleged to have done on Saturday nights."

Or can you now finally confirm for me that this statement was, indeed, a nonsense, as I said it was, becaus you didn't mean "People" who attended synagogue (i.e. Jewish people) but specifically Jewish people of Polish origin.

Finally, can you just tell me how you know that Kosminski attended synagogue on the days he is alleged to attacked women on Saturday nights.

Many thanks. Once I have your answers I can begin this exciting challenge.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

No really PI, I'm interested. What was so special about Polish Jews at the time that made it literally impossible for them to attack gentile women on Saturdays?

Were Russian Jews more or less likely to be attacking gentile women?

Or was it just British Jews who were violent towards gentile women?

And were the whole lot capable of attacking Jewish women?

I'm so intrigued?

Oh, and did all the Polish Jews become suddenly violent on the stroke of 1 January 1900 so that attacks on gentile women in the early 20th century don't count?

I just want to know. What is it in your mind that makes you think Polish Jews in the East End during the late nineteenth century were different from anyone else?

It has been alleged that the Whitechapel Murderer was a Polish Jew.

It has also been alleged that the man seen attacking Stride in Whitechapel was a Polish Jew.

I repeat the challenge: where is the evidence that Polish Jews ever attacked gentile women in the East End of London?

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

I am still waiting for you to provide evidence of cases in which a Polish Jew attacked a gentile woman in the East End of London in the late nineteenth century.

Seems rather a strange challenge. Would the description of the attack include such information as a matter of course? And of course there is always the possibility of such an attack occurring in which the attacker was never caught so no such evidence would ever be recorded.

c.d.

What's strange about it?

I mentioned previously the fact that there is no record of a Polish Jewish serial killer anywhere in the world.

That has not prevented some posters from claiming that the Whitechapel Murderer was a Polish Jew or that the man seen attacking Stride in Whitechapel was a Polish Jew.

According to Elamarna, it is quite believable that a Polish Jew might have had a few drinks one Saturday night and attacked a woman in the street.

I therefore issued the challenge to cite the case of a Polish Jew who attacked a gentile woman in the East End of London.

Plenty of posters have noted that an Aaron Kosminski, a Polish Jew, was arraigned in court for having walked a dog in the City of London without a muzzle.

I don't recall seeing comments claiming that it is possible that a Polish Jew may have walked a dog in the City of London without a muzzle but not been caught.

I am talking about evidence.

I repeat the challenge: where is the evidence that Polish Jews ever attacked gentile women in the East End of London?

[c.d.]

I am still waiting for you to provide evidence of cases in which a Polish Jew attacked a gentile woman in the East End of London in the late nineteenth century.

Seems rather a strange challenge. Would the description of the attack include such information as a matter of course? And of course there is always the possibility of such an attack occurring in which the attacker was never caught so no such evidence would ever be recorded.

c.d.

[Herlock Sholmes]

It seems that you have indeed been reading David Icke.

Perhaps some of his ideas have rubbed off on you.

No really PI, I'm interested. What was so special about Polish Jews at the time that made it literally impossible for them to attack gentile women on Saturdays?

Were Russian Jews more or less likely to be attacking gentile women?

Or was it just British Jews who were violent towards gentile women?

And were the whole lot capable of attacking Jewish women?

I'm so intrigued?

Oh, and did all the Polish Jews become suddenly violent on the stroke of 1 January 1900 so that attacks on gentile women in the early 20th century don't count?

I just want to know. What is it in your mind that makes you think Polish Jews in the East End during the late nineteenth century were different from anyone else?

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Your "challenge" changes every minute. Previously it was Whitechapel in 1888 now it's expanded to the East End in the late nineteenth century, showing how random it all is.

But if I were to give you a name, it wouldn"t necessarily help because the attack needs to have been on a Saturday night, doesn't it? That's what you said. Have you forgotten already?

And how am I supposed to show that this individual had been to synagogue on Saturday morning?

So your "challenge" is absurd.

Far easier for you to post the evidence to support your categoric statement that "People who attended synagogue on Saturday did not do what Kosminski is alleged to have done on Saturday nights".

It's for you to prove that statement. Or do you now want to admit that it was pure tripe with no evidential support whatsoever?

It seems that you have indeed been reading David Icke.

Perhaps some of his ideas have rubbed off on you.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I repeat my challenge to Herlock Shomes:


I am still waiting for you to provide evidence of cases in which a Polish Jew attacked a gentile woman in the East End of London in the late nineteenth century.


Surely someone who is prepared to spend six months reading a book on the assassination of President Kennedy can spare the time to find just one case of a Polish Jew attacking a gentile woman in the East End of London in the late nineteenth century.

It doesn't even have to include murder or mutilation.

Surely you can manage that?

Your "challenge" changes every minute. Previously it was Whitechapel in 1888 now it's expanded to the East End in the late nineteenth century, showing how random it all is.

But if I were to give you a name, it wouldn"t necessarily help because the attack needs to have been on a Saturday night, doesn't it? That's what you said. Have you forgotten already?

And how am I supposed to show that this individual had been to synagogue on Saturday morning?

So your "challenge" is absurd.

Far easier for you to post the evidence to support your categoric statement that "People who attended synagogue on Saturday did not do what Kosminski is alleged to have done on Saturday nights".

It's for you to prove that statement. Or do you now want to admit that it was pure tripe with no evidential support whatsoever?

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

I repeat my challenge to Herlock Shomes:


I am still waiting for you to provide evidence of cases in which a Polish Jew attacked a gentile woman in the East End of London in the late nineteenth century.


Surely someone who is prepared to spend six months reading a book on the assassination of President Kennedy can spare the time to find just one case of a Polish Jew attacking a gentile woman in the East End of London in the late nineteenth century.

It doesn't even have to include murder or mutilation.

Surely you can manage that?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Wow PI, you've made me realize that Ted Bundy was innocent, despite his confession.

After all, how many law students in Utah kidnapped and murdered young women?

Unless you can find me evidence of law students from Utah going out murdering young women, we're going to have to mark Bundy's conviction as a terrible miscarriage of justice.

[Herlock Sholmes]

For someone who supposedly dislikes character assassination, it is remarkable that you are prepared to make an exception for the Jews of the East End.

I am still waiting for you to provide evidence of Polish Jews attacking gentile women in the East End of London in the late nineteenth century.

And since you are so particular about the way in which words are used, I will rephrase it:

I am still waiting for you to provide evidence of cases in which a Polish Jew attacked a gentile woman in the East End of London in the late nineteenth century.

It doesn't work like that PI. You're the one making the claim. So you are the one who needs to prove that "People who attended synagogue on Saturday did not do what Kosminski is alleged to have done on Saturday nights."

I assume you must have access to a document which lists the the religious denomination of every man who attacked women in the East End with a record of whether they attended a house of worship. I've never seen it myself and would love to know where to find it.

Mind you, the fact that I've asked you to provide the evidence to back up your claim but you've completely failed to do so makes me a little bit suspicious that you are simply making stuff up.