The Jewish Standard Friday 14 November 1910

[Rob Clack]

I'm a bit out of my league on this one but is the A Abrahams at the bottom of the list worth a look at? Wasn't Aarons correct surname Abrahams? (according to the dog in Cheapside incident). Is that S. De. Jong a person?

Rob C

[robhouse]

Scott,

Yes, thanks for posting all that. It is all new to me also obviously.

RH

[robhouse]

Chris,

Good point about the inscription.

I too would like to know more about this Abraham Kozminski, but I am not sure if it would be any more (or less) relevant to the case than learning about any of the other Kozminskis floating around at the time. (Incidentally, I got a second email from someone claiming to be a descendant of Wolf Kozminski... apparently the one of Batty Gardens or whatever).

I would assume that Aaron Kozminski probably had cousins and other relations in London that we do not know about (in-laws etc). There are a number of Kozminskis who were never really followed up... any of these may be related to Aaron, if distantly. But is it really all that worthwhile to try to follow them up? Honest question here...

Rob

[Chris]

Yes, Abraham Kosminski, aged 39, tailor, in the 1891 census. Lived at 47 Langdale St. B. Golina, Poland. Wife Matilda, 40, child - Ephraim 12, b. London. Abraham died March 13, 1893 aged 40 of Bright's Disease. Death was registered by Henry Bowman, tailor of 53 Princes Square, London. Henry was Abraham's brother-in-law.

The son Ephraim later used the last name Abrahams, but was registered at his death as "Kosminski".
...
Oh, one other thing. Abraham had a sister named Betsy. Could she be the "Betsy" married to Woolf Abrahams of 3 Sion Square in the 1891 census?

Thanks for posting these details, most of which were new to me - particularly Abraham's birthplace and the fact that he had a sister named Betsy.

While Rob is correct in saying that on the one hand the Polish records relating to Woolf's wife Brucha/Betsy show only a brother Jakob and (apparently) a sister Sara who died in infancy, on the other hand both her monumental inscription and the announcement of her death in the Jewish Chronicle refer to a brother and sisters, so it does seem that there were more siblings that we don't know about.

So it would be interesting to know more about this Abraham.

[Rob Clack]

I meant thanks to Chris for saying "I wouldn't wish to detract at all from the credit due to Rob for finding this." which was nice of him to say.

But thank you Rob House for mentioning Abraham Kosminski on this thread first.
And thank you to Scott for adding some details.

Feels like I'm excepting an Oscar


Rob

[Scott Nelson]

You're welcome.

[Rob Clack]

Thanks Chris, I never knew there was another A Kosminski. Something to keep an eye out for in future.

Rob

[wolfie1]

I wouldn't wish to detract at all from the credit due to Rob for finding this.

But I do have to agree that this is quite a large sum of money (anything between £90 and more than £500, according to the standard of comparison), and it's difficult to see how Aaron would have been in a position to donate it, considering that he hadn't worked for years and that only four months earlier he had been admitted to the workhouse as destitute and possibly insane.

My suspicion would be that the initial "A" might perhaps be an error. Certainly Martin Kozminski and his brother Samuel both occur elsewhere as generous donors to charitable causes. "M. Kosminski" - no doubt Martin - was a member of the Council of the United Synagogue at around this time [Jewish Chronicle, 5 April 1889, p. 7].

Have to agree with you Chris.
It is quite unlikely that Aaron would have been in a position to make a donation. It is considered to be quite 'the done thing' to do among those who are financially able to provide support to the poor. Most likely either a Typo, or another A Kosminski.

[Chris]

Indeed, a guinea, (£1.1s.0d) is an awful lot of money for a man that was locked up in the not too distant future afterwards. The simple fact is that we cannot be sure, as you have pointed out, who this Kosminski is. So linking "the" Aron Kosminski to this list would be entirely speculative, tempting though it is to think it.

I wouldn't wish to detract at all from the credit due to Rob for finding this.

But I do have to agree that this is quite a large sum of money (anything between £90 and more than £500, according to the standard of comparison), and it's difficult to see how Aaron would have been in a position to donate it, considering that he hadn't worked for years and that only four months earlier he had been admitted to the workhouse as destitute and possibly insane.

My suspicion would be that the initial "A" might perhaps be an error. Certainly Martin Kozminski and his brother Samuel both occur elsewhere as generous donors to charitable causes. "M. Kosminski" - no doubt Martin - was a member of the Council of the United Synagogue at around this time [Jewish Chronicle, 5 April 1889, p. 7].

[Phil Carter]

I am a bit hesitant to believe that Aaron would have donated a pound to the Synagogue fund, but who knows. Still, I dont think we can jump to the conclusion that this was Aaron quite yet.

RH

Hello Rob,

Indeed, a guinea, (£1.1s.0d) is an awful lot of money for a man that was locked up in the not too distant future afterwards. The simple fact is that we cannot be sure, as you have pointed out, who this Kosminski is. So linking "the" Aron Kosminski to this list would be entirely speculative, tempting though it is to think it.
I also note that although there are many names upon this list, it is indeed a shame that the G.Phillips listed isn't G.B.Phillips. Now that would have been something....

best wishes

Phil

[Rob Clack]

Could the dates be clarified. Rob's Post says Friday 14 November 1910, but the chronical was 14th November 1890.

Cheers

Busy Beaver

Ah, I don't know what happened there. The Jewish Standard was 1890 and not 1910 as I put in the thread title and the top of the first post. I did put 1890 just above the image of the paper. Must be old age But it's definitely 1890

Rob

[robhouse]

Oh, one other thing. Abraham had a sister named Betsy. Could she be the "Betsy" married to Woolf Abrahams of 3 Sion Square in the 1891 census?

Woolf's wife Betsy was born Brucha Kozminski in 1856, the daughter of Kasryel Szlama Kozminski and his wife Pessa Lux. As far as I have been able to find, she had a brother Jacob (b. 1850) and a sister Sara who died as an infant (b. and d. 1854). It is possible that there was another brother, but I have not seen any evidence of it.

We have to accept that some of these Kozminskis were simply not related, or at best, related quite distantly.

Rob H

PS. It seems possible that Kasryel Szlama was the son of Abram Kozminski's elder brother Mosiek. (Abram being Aaron Kozminski's father)... ie. Kasryel would have been Abram's nephew, making Woolf and Betsy first-cousins once removed if my math is correct.

PPS. The fact that Mosiek was about 20-years Abram's elder thus explaining the closeness in age between Wolf and Betsy.

RH

[Busy Beaver]

Could the dates be clarified. Rob's Post says Friday 14 November 1910, but the chronical was 14th November 1890.

Cheers

Busy Beaver

[Scott Nelson]

Oh, one other thing. Abraham had a sister named Betsy. Could she be the "Betsy" married to Woolf Abrahams of 3 Sion Square in the 1891 census?

[Scott Nelson]

Yes, Abraham Kosminski, aged 39, tailor, in the 1891 census. Lived at 47 Langdale St. B. Golina, Poland. Wife Matilda, 40, child - Ephraim 12, b. London. Abraham died March 13, 1893 aged 40 of Bright's Disease. Death was registered by Henry Bowman, tailor of 53 Princes Square, London. Henry was Abraham's brother-in-law.

The son Ephraim later used the last name Abrahams, but was registered at his death as "Kosminski".