Plausibility of Kosminski

[mariab]

I can read Hebrew. And I can translate very very laboriously. I learned the mechanics of the language, not so much the actual language. Fortunately most of my family speaks Hebrew on a semi fluent level, and one of them is one of the foremost Yiddish experts in the country.
Not to mention two generations ago they were all Jewish socialists...

Amazing, Errata. Lynn Cates might get to you per PM if it's OK.

[Errata]

Amazing, Errata. Lynn Cates might get to you per PM if it's OK.

sure thing.

[Errata]

Sorry I can't help Maria, I don't read Hebrew and I don't know anyone who does. I wish I did because looking at all those various names on the Jewish/Polish website makes it very difficult to work out who was who after they arrived here and starting changing not only their "given names" but their surname as well . I don't have the Hewbrew/Jewish knowledge for even that type of translation. I am sure you have all found the same problem!

I can help with that. Any Jewish person has two or three names, and they follow a specific formula, so any Polish name has about three different ways it can be logically anglicized, though fair warning: every Polish name has about 10 million ways it can be illogically anglicized

I think I went over some of it of a Jacob Levy thread awhile back. I'll have to look for it.

[Chris]

There is a database of Jewish Given Names on the JewishGen website, which is meant to link together Hebrew and Yiddish forms and vernacular equivalents in various countries, which may be some help, though in my experience the English names people adopted certainly didn't always follow these supposed rules:

http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/GivenNames/

[Errata]

Amazing, Errata. Lynn Cates might get to you per PM if it's OK.

I meant to say this before and completely forgot...

The newspaper will be in Yiddish. Unless it comes out of Israel. It's written using the Hebrew alphabet, but its really different. Think of it as German or Polish or Lithuanian written using the Hebrew alphabet with a different vowel pronunciation than any of the above languages.

I mention this because there are any number of biblical scholars who know Hebrew back and forth, and are great resources. But if they aren't Jewish, then most likely they don't know Yiddish, and then they look at it and start to go kinda cross eyed. It certainly wouldn't be impossible for them to puzzle it out, unless they didn't know it was Yiddish. Then they might start crying or something. So whoever you get to look at it, let them know its almost certainly Yiddish.

[mariab]

Errata, Dr. Turttletaub at Northwestern Uni. in Chicago is familiar with both Hebrew and Yiddish and has already translated 2 issues of the AF.

[Errata]

Errata, Dr. Turttletaub at Northwestern Uni. in Chicago is familiar with both Hebrew and Yiddish and has already translated 2 issues of the AF.

Hey I know her. She's great. Funny too.

[mariab]

Hey I know her. She's great. Funny too.

Really? Nice!
If Lynn hasn't seen this exchange, I'll email him about it in the next couple of days. (I'm a tiny bit sick and a bit overwhelmed by work right now. :-))

[Jonathan H]

Deliberately backdated?

I have just made a point on another thread about 'Kosminski'

I thought it would be of interest here, perhaps not.

The thrust of the official version of Macnaghten's Report is that the murderer had to be off the scene soon after the Kelly murder, due to the horrific nature of what was done to the poor woman's remains, either by immediate self-murder or incarceration, very soon after, to a madhouse.

Thus this allegedly made the random trio of M.J. Druitt, 'Kosminski', and Michael Ostrog, far likelier Ripper suspects than Thaomas Cutbush as the latter was only sectioned in 1891 -- far too late, eg. he was functional for way too long after the Miller's Court horror.

But this was also true of the real Aaron Kosminski, who was sectioned only in Feb 1891 a month before Cutbush was arrested for his non-lethal assaults.

Therefore, Aaron kosminski is useless to the political-polemical needs of Mac's argument -- the efficient police have not been at fault over this difficult case -- unless you backdate the incarceration of 'Kosminski' to March 1889.

Is that really just a coincidence that Mac's 'error' rendered this Polish madman useful at that moment, for without the 'error' he is useless?

[Jonathan H]

Just luck?

I am asking if the conventional wisdom on Macnaghten's 'inaccuracy' is still what people think?

That it is just a coincidence that, according to his own criteria, Macnaghten's choice of Aaron Kosminski as a better Ripper suspect than Cutbush does not work because he was sectioned at almost the same time as the ex-cop's non-nephew.

But, according to majority opinion, it was just a bit of luck that Macnaghten was either mis-informed or mis-remembered the true incarceration date of 'Kosminski' so that the Polish lunatic could be a better suspect -- according to this chief's dodgy 'awful glut' criteria -- than Cutbush.

[Roy Corduroy]

So your question is, did Melville Macnaghten deliberately backdate Kosminski's detention to asylum to March 1889, soon after the five murders ended. Or not. Instead, was it some kind of mistake.

... ... drums fingers on table ... stalling for time ...

Okay, then, you tell me, Jonathan. Since you raised the question. if he did that deliberately, then why did he do that. To what end?

Ah, I feel better now. Roy

[Jonathan H]

Because Aaron Kosminski, due to his incarceration around the time of Cutbush's arrest in early 1891 does not fit Mac's dubious, 'awful glut' criteria -- but 'Kosminski' the semi-fictional variant of this real person incarcerated in early 1889, does fit.

And that is how Griffiths reported it in 1898, about the Polish Jew being incarcerated 'afterwards', eg. after the Kelly murder and thus qualifying as a possible suspect but less likely than the self-drowned, Gentile doctor because he allegedly killed himself immediately after the same crime.

I am not arguing that Arron Kosminski is knocked out, nothing of the kind. I am arguing that none of the trio qualify according to the 'criteria'; that Mac manipulated data about all three 'suspects'.

[jason_c]

Because Aaron Kosminski, due to his incarceration around the time of Cutbush's arrest in early 1891 does not fit Mac's dubious, 'awful glut' criteria -- but 'Kosminski' the semi-fictional variant of this real person incarcerated in early 1889, does fit.

And that is how Griffiths reported it in 1898, about the Polish Jew being incarcerated 'afterwards', eg. after the Kelly murder and thus qualifying as a possible suspect but less likely than the self-drowned, Gentile doctor because he allegedly killed himself immediately after the same crime.

I am not arguing that Arron Kosminski is knocked out, nothing of the kind. I am arguing that none of the trio qualify according to the 'criteria'; that Mac manipulated data about all three 'suspects'.

Its more likely he was simply wrong. Adding 10 years to the age of Druitt did not enhance his ripper candidacy in any way.

Its only MM that gives the excuse of the ripper being incapacitated as the reason the murders stopped i.e dead or in an asylum. He could quite as easily have chosen temporary insanity as the reason the murders stopped. If MM is looking for plausable suspects he is tying his own hands by maintaining the ripper had to be dead or in an asylum. I think MM is looking for a genuine reason why they stopped rather than any excuse to keep the politicians happy.

[Jonathan H]

To Jason C

You're missing my point.

Aaron Kosminski does not qualify for the 'awful glut' criteria, but 'Kosmisnki' does.

That's too coincidental for me.

A suspect moreover, who is written about by Anderson and Swanson as if he was 'safely caged' soon after the 'final' murder.

Even better -- he was dead 'soon after'.

You can watch, in the meager primary sources, Aaron Kosminski evolve towards that deceased figure by, perhaps, 1895.

The idea that Druitt fit a pre-conceived theory is a Macnaghten deflection.

We know this because the Ripper murders lasted until 1891, and the investigation even until 1895.

Druitt was handed to Macnaghten on a silver plate, in 1891, and from that moment he changed his mind about the duration of the terror from years to a brief season.

He had to, and thus it is the timing of Druitt's self-murder which creates the canonical five.

The 'Report' was written to exonerate the police from blame, to put Scotland Yard in the best possible light. The too-late, and too-dead Druitt was redacted into the 1888 investigation, Aaron Kosminski's incarceration was backdated or else he is on the same level as Cutbush -- except that the latter was actually convicted for harming women -- and Ostrog was supposedly unknown in his whereabouts at the time of the murders when Mac probably knew he was in an asylum in France.

[S.Brett]

Aaron Kosminski in Dezember 1889

“I goes by the name of Abrahams sometimes because Kosmunski is hard to spell. I cannot pay the dog belongs to Jacobs it is not mine.”

Inspector Swanson:

"In a very short time the suspect with his hands tied behind his back, was sent to Stepney Workhouse, and then to Colney Hatch, where he died shortly afterwards, Kosminski was the suspect"

Later, Swanson learned of the following entry in the Whitechapel Workhouse Infirmary:

07/12/1888
"David", "Cohen", 23 "PC 91H Thames Police Court," "Single", "Tailor", "Insane", "21/12/1888", "To Colney Hatch asylum" (86 Leman Street as address in Colney Hatch)

But he has also noticed this post?

11/12/1888
"David", "Jacobs", 22 "86 Leman Street," "Single", "Cigar Maker", "Bubo", "21/12/1888"

The same age, same address, the same day of discharge. But David Jacobs apparently had a sexually transmitted disease.

Even Hyam Hyams was picked up at the same time in the Leman Street.

Henry Cox:

"I followed him to Lehman Street, and there I saw him enter a shop which i knew was the abode of a number of well known criminals to the police."

Whitechapel Workhouse Infirmary:

David Cohen:
07.12.1888
23
Single
86 Leman Street
dis.: 21.12. 1888

David Jacobs:
11.12. 1888
22
Single
86 Leman Street
dis.: 21.12. 1888

Swanson remembered particularly well to the violence of Kosminski. This kind of violence showed David Cohen. But I think Kosminski was not violent at this time in December. And, Kosminski was found as a Cohen (by the MET) at the time of the identifications. After the identifications, the City Police observed the suspect (PC Watkins and the Seaside Home).

I think, the police (MET) identified Kosminski in a private Hospital (Secret action/ Jewish witness/ November 1888)

A short time later, PC Watkins "identified" Kosminski (Seaside Home)

After the identifications, the City Police observed Kosminski (PC Watkins was the reason)

In early Dezember 1888, the MET- Police believed (Swanson knew nothing about it), the crazy Jew from the Lemon Street is Aaron Davis Cohen (the Ripper- Suspect). But it was a mistake. They changed the Name Aaron Cohen to David Cohen.

Some time later, Swanson learns of the City Police:

The suspect (Kosminski/Cohen) was taken to a hospital and then in an asylum.

But in reality:

The suspect was taken to a hospital, then home and then in an asylum
(Cox- I was on duty in this street for nearly three months, Macnaghten- he was removed to a lunatic asylum about March 1889)

In Dezember 1889, Aaron Kosminski called a name: Jacobs!

(Jacobs´Family= his friends, his people?)

The family and friends knew, perhaps, that he might be the Ripper, and changed the entire name. Perhaps the religion and the profession (and adress?). The age does indeed almost identical.

In the autumn of 1888, Aaron Cohen (the family of his sister´s husband Lubnowski and/or Jacob Cohen),
in December 1889 Aaron Abrahams (his brothers Isaac and Woolf),
and in November / December 1888 David Jacobs (a family Jacobs or Jacob Cohen)?

Does anyone know anything about this David Jacobs?