My theory on Kosminski

[Paddy]

Daughter Bessie also in 1901 census same address in St Marylebone.

Danil Kozminski son of Ludowik born 1852 married Rojza Trajber in Kolo in 1873. Could be distantly related to Aaron as his cousins lived in Kolo.
I did check and he is not closely related.

They went to Australia some time after in 1911.

Pat.....

[Robert]

The naturalisation record says that Daniel has no children, but the 1891 census shows a daughter Bessie aged 11.

[Scott Nelson]

Hi RJ,

No, other than a certain John Hyam co-sponsored Daniel's naturalization application, and that this Hyam was probably the manager of the Imperial Club on Duke Street in 1887-88. Quite possibly, Daniel, who lived close by on Houndsditch, was a member as well.

[rjpalmer]

Scott, did you ever find anything more about the 'hairdresser' Daniel Kosminski?

[Scott Nelson]

Still, some caution should have been given to attendants so other patients could be protected; but apparently none was (at least the written records show nothing.)

[PaulB]

Hi Paul. Fair enough. This must have been my own misunderstanding. I actually like this position, because I have long felt that Anderson (and Macnaghten in at least one instance) is implying that Kosminski's family somehow finessed the Met (or maybe the City Police) by spiriting him away to the workhouse before any legal trouble could ensue. Tying a suspect’s hands with rope is not police procedure, but it is consistent with something the family might have done, which could, potentially, also answer Robert’s question. Aaron K had made it into ‘the system’ before the investigation was concluded.

Hi Roger
That's always been my take on it. No rope is mentioned, of course, but his hands tied behind his back ammounts to the same thing. Kosminski was returned to his brother's house after the identification and the family avoided unpleasant publicity by having him committed before the police could bring charges. We seem to be on the same page here!

Cheers
Paul

[rjpalmer]

I'm not sure what I've said to suggest that I resist the idea that Kosminski's alleged violence wasn't reported to the asylum authorities.

Hi Paul. Fair enough. This must have been my own misunderstanding. I actually like this position, because I have long felt that Anderson (and Macnaghten in at least one instance) is implying that Kosminski's family somehow finessed the Met (or maybe the City Police) by spiriting him away to the workhouse before any legal trouble could ensue. Tying a suspect’s hands with rope is not police procedure, but it is consistent with something the family might have done, which could, potentially, also answer Robert’s question. Aaron K had made it into ‘the system’ before the investigation was concluded.

[Robert]

One thing that puzzles me is, if AK was a suspect, why not send him to Broadmoor? Cutbush was sent there and he hadn't been found guilty of anything. They could have charged AK with attacking his sister, found him unfit to plead and sent him to Broadmoor where, presumably, the security was tighter than at Colney Hatch or Leavesden.

[PaulB]

From 'Jack the Ripper --The Facts' by Paul Begg (2006) p.487:

‘In 1891 Melville Macnaghten wrote to Banstead requesting that the Convict Supervision Office be informed if Ostrog was released. There is no suggestion that Banstead were informed that Ostrog was potentially dangerous, possibly a multiple murderer and perhaps Jacks the Ripper.’

Paul, you draw conclusions about Ostrog's alleged violence not being reported to Banstead, but seem to resist this same possibility in the case of Kosminki's committal?

The bald fact that AK's case notes are so mundane and that he was ultimately sent to Leavesden as a harmless imbecile surely supports the conclusion that the attendants were never informed that he was "possibly a multiple murderer and Jack the Ripper?" No?

Perhaps I am dense, but I see no difference, and, indeed what might be called the "cluelessness" of the medical attendants seems even more evident in the case notes for Kosminski.

Hi Roger,
I'm not sure what I've said to suggest that I resist the idea that Kosminski's alleged violence wasn't reported to the asylum authorities. I've always thought it possible that it wasn't, and I agree that his transfer to Leavesden might indeed suggest that they had no idea of the police suspicions. What I do say, repeatedly over the years, is that Kosminski's asylum records are concerned with his physical health and say next to nothing about his general behaviour, how his mental illness manifested itself (by which I mean the form his delusions took), or, indeed, his mental condition overall. Sorry if I have misled anyone.

[Scott Nelson]

For what it's worth, I think workhouse and asylum authorities were never informed about police suspicions that the hairdresser, AK, was a Ripper suspect, because he wasn't.

[rjpalmer]

The "case notes" are periodic notes concerning his physical health. They make very little mention of his behaviour, his mental condition, how his hallucinations manifested themselves, or anything he said. Whether or not they would have reflected anything the asylum authorities were told by the police is therefore moot.

From 'Jack the Ripper --The Facts' by Paul Begg (2006) p.487:

‘In 1891 Melville Macnaghten wrote to Banstead requesting that the Convict Supervision Office be informed if Ostrog was released. There is no suggestion that Banstead were informed that Ostrog was potentially dangerous, possibly a multiple murderer and perhaps Jacks the Ripper.’

Paul, you draw conclusions about Ostrog's alleged violence not being reported to Banstead, but seem to resist this same possibility in the case of Kosminki's committal?

The bald fact that AK's case notes are so mundane and that he was ultimately sent to Leavesden as a harmless imbecile surely supports the conclusion that the attendants were never informed that he was "possibly a multiple murderer and Jack the Ripper?" No?

Perhaps I am dense, but I see no difference, and, indeed what might be called the "cluelessness" of the medical attendants seems even more evident in the case notes for Kosminski.

[kjab3112]

When I say that Kosminski was probably medicated, I don't mean he was PROPERLY medicated, and certainly not adequately treated for schizophrenia. What I mean is that any asylum inmate prone to any kind of outbursts would have probably been given some sort of mood stabilizer or sedative, at least on occasion.

But whether or not that's true is beside the point. Most people who dismiss Kosminski do so because he was not violent in the asylum. My main point there is that (1) of the preferred targets- female prostitutes- are absent, and (2) if the main exacerbating factor- alcohol- is absent, then there is literally no reason to believe that JtR would've acted even remotely the same in an asylum as he did on the streets where both triggers were readily available.

Of the standard (current) sedative groups, only Chloral Hydrate was available in the late 19th C (from what I would now use).Barbiturates, although identified, did not have an effective form until 1905. Benzodiazepines were not synthesised until the 1950s. Admittedly there were opiates and ether/chloroform type substances but these would be more of a rapid take down type scenario not regular sedation.

Paul

[Paddy]

Thanks John .....Will have to have a read of the other thread. I agree if it was dark, it makes it much less likely that Jack wrote it.
Pat.....

[John G]

Then one of those angry young men could have been a a perfect candidate for the writing of the Goulston street Grafitto, turning against the established Jews.

One other thing that was interesting on Kosminskis Asylum notes was the fact that he thought he should still be under Russian Consulate...This was crossed out though and is quite hard to read, but is words to that effect

Pat......

Hi Pat,

Except, as I've argued at length on the GSG thread, I doubt think the graffito was written on the night of the Double Event because it would have been far too dark.

[Paddy]

Tom doesn't say it was a "drinking club". He states it "was a collection of young, angry men, who had turned their backs on religion, and wanted to bring down the establishment by any means necessary

Then one of those angry young men could have been a a perfect candidate for the writing of the Goulston street Grafitto, turning against the established Jews.

One other thing that was interesting on Kosminskis Asylum notes was the fact that he thought he should still be under Russian Consulate...This was crossed out though and is quite hard to read, but is words to that effect

Pat......