My theory on Kosminski

[Sam Flynn]

Hello Meerkat, and welcome. Good first post.

I agree with your reasoning about Kosminski's arguably not changing his clothes between the Stride and Eddowes murders, however I question the idea that the Ripper (whoever he was) changed his clothing that night at all. Why would he? It's not as if he needed to don a "disguise", there wouldn't have been much blood spilt at the scene of Stride's murder, and one has to wonder how many working class people in that area had the luxury of owning a change of clothes in the first place. Even if they did, there was precious little time between the murders for the killer to (a) get away from Berner Street to his base; (b) get changed; and (c) go scouring the neighbourhood for another woman under circumstances suitable to "seduce" and kill her. A change of clothes was thus not only unnecessary, but impractical.

Prof Wilson's using the "change of clothes" idea to excuse the differences between the suspects seen by Schwartz and Lawende (et al) struck me as desperate shoe-horning, and I mentally switched off the documentary at the point this suggestion was made.

Incidentally, I'm glad if the documentary didn't mention the shawl, because it's a very dubious artefact in its own right, and the DNA evidence connecting it to Kosminski (and Eddowes) is hugely controversial.

[Meerkat]

Hi everyone, my name is Stephen and i am new here, i have watched any documentary i can on the subject of JTR and i have read a lot online since around 8 years ago but the next step is to read a book and i,m hoping to get down to London at some point for a tour also:-)

Anyways i watched the re-run of the bbc documentary and i was surprised to see prof David Wilson point the finger at Aaron Kosminski, i have watched a few programs with David Wilson on various murderers and it seems to me that this guy does know his stuff when it comes to profiling murderers. Does anyone think this assumption might have been based on the dna evidence that was found connecting a descendant of Kosminski?

In any case it seems an odd assumption because if what i read is correct then Kosminski was said to have suffered mental health issues since 1885 and was eating very little food and from the floor, he was also not bathing so i think grooming would be an issue too, i would also imagine his clothes would have been stuck to him for months.

I dont know if all the hygiene issues were reported once in asylums which were later than 1888 but i really cant see him being well dressed even in 1888 like some witnesses report if it was the ripper ofcourse.

I defo buy into the idea the ripper may have changed their clothes between the double murder as hinted at in the documentary, however i cant see Kosminski being responsible of the double murder of Stride and Eddowes for various reasons.

1: It would not appear Kosminski had the gumption to change his clothes between the murders.
2: if he had hygeine issues at the time then that is another reason he wouldn,t be re-dressing.
3: He would have been acting or looking odd/ pale/ skinny and unclean and i would have thought even back then stuck out like a sore thumb.

The shawl aswell that was not mentioned in the documentary seems to be odd aswell, i,m not an expert but i thought a 100% DNA match which is reported was only possible if it is from the actual subject which is obviously not the case because the match they say is from a descendant.

Another thing regarding the shawl, is it not possible if it was Aaron,s dna that was left on the shawl,, for various reasons was left there months or even years before?, its also possible the shawl changed hands between prostitutes or anyone for that matter, i,m just not buying into the shawl thing at all, probably because it was so long ago to prove anything.

Anyway thats my rant over, please be gentle as it is my first post.

Cheers all

[Busy Beaver]

Quoted By Abby Normal "I also have serious doubts that someone with a mental disorder could pull off what the ripper did, let alone ruse the victims into thinking he was a normal harmless punter".

Agreed Abby. JTR is considered Psychotic- the BBC failed to look a bit more into Aaron Kosminski's mental state at the time of the murders. If Kos was either harmless or on the far end of deteriorating, then I can't see him being the murderer as he's got no murderous thoughts, or he's that confused he would have undoubtedly been caught as he could be noisy at times and probably would have been quite vocal during the killings. And as we know, the killings when taking place were quiet affairs in terms of no sounds made from Killer or Victim. (unless you count MJK's cry of "Oh Murder".)

[Simon Wood]

Hi RJ,

And a year too late for Melville Macnaghten.

Regards,

Simon

[Debra A]

I wonder if it could relate to one of a few men who were admitted to asylums from infirmaries in the East End in 89? The news report isn't specific with the exact date prior to 1890.

Here are a couple of men whose asylum notes mention Jack the Ripper.

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?p=130411&highlight=mesmerist#post130411

[rjpalmer]

Now for the punch-line. It is dated February 14, 1890. A year too early for Aaron Kosminski, and a year too late for David Cohen.

(Birmingham News, UK)

[rjpalmer]

Scott. Here's a brain teaser for you; maybe you've seen it.

[Scott Nelson]

...neither the B.S. man or any other suspect was in custody as Stride's alleged killer.

We don't know the names of all of the men in custody as Stride's alleged killer, or any of the other victims of that matter.


Back to Kosminski: I had some notes that Woolf Kosminski was born in Kolo, Poland, as was Daniel Kosminski. There weren't that many Kosminskis in Kolo, so the possibility remains that Daniel and Woolf may have been related.

[c.d.]

Schwartz's non-appearance at the inquest would seem to be somewhat of a moot point as neither the B.S. man or any other suspect was in custody as Stride's alleged killer.

c.d.

[Scott Nelson]

Thanks RJ.

Looks like the following year, Daniel was living at 10 Bromehead Street in Stepney.

[rjpalmer]

Scott: I don't know if this is the slightest bit interesting, but regarding our old friend Daniel Kosminski:

"Robert Schroeder, a German, was again placed at the bar on a charge of stealing from his employer, D. Kozminski, hairdresser, of 8, Church-Street, Rotherhithe, a gold Albert chain and gold ring, having been several times remanded, and the property not having been found, Mr. Balguy discharged the prisoner." - Kentish Mercury, 24 May 1879.

South of the river; reasonably affluent.

[Trevor Marriott]

Wynne Baxter gave a very detailed summing up on the last day of the inquest.
The CORONER, in summing up, said the jury would probably agree with him that it would be unreasonable to adjourn this inquiry again on the chance of something further being ascertained to elucidate the mysterious case on which they had devoted so much time.
Note something further being ascertained. So if Schwartz had gone missing or was difficult to find Wynne Baxter would certainly have adjourned the inquest again. Not only that but he goes into detail of the sightings of Marshall, Pc Smith and most tellingly James Brown. He then sums up whether they all saw the victim with the murderer or not,the time differences, and the differences in their descriptions, without debunking any of them. This is important with Brown because he allegedly saw Stride at the same time as Schwartz. Surely this would cast doubt on Brown seeing the victim but nowhere does he say or even hint at it. IE There is some evidence which is still being investigated which may suggest that the victim was seen in the company of another man the same time as the witness James Brown was alleged to have seen her. This would protect Schwartz whilst at the same time opening up the possibility that Brown was mistaken. Maybe just maybe the veracity of Schwartz was being investigated during the adjournment. But by the 23rd [Swanson's report is the 19th] he was considered to be too unreliable to take the stand, so the summing up went ahead.

The answer to all this is simple, if Stride was prostituting herself in and around Berner Street, she as likely as not in doing so might have accosted all men who crossed her path, some may have given her a verbal and physical no thanks and pushed her away as was described by Schwartz. There is no way a killer would have wanted to attract that much attention in an area where people were moving about in numbers.

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Darryl Kenyon]

Wynne Baxter gave a very detailed summing up on the last day of the inquest.
The CORONER, in summing up, said the jury would probably agree with him that it would be unreasonable to adjourn this inquiry again on the chance of something further being ascertained to elucidate the mysterious case on which they had devoted so much time.
Note something further being ascertained. So if Schwartz had gone missing or was difficult to find Wynne Baxter would certainly have adjourned the inquest again. Not only that but he goes into detail of the sightings of Marshall, Pc Smith and most tellingly James Brown. He then sums up whether they all saw the victim with the murderer or not,the time differences, and the differences in their descriptions, without debunking any of them. This is important with Brown because he allegedly saw Stride at the same time as Schwartz. Surely this would cast doubt on Brown seeing the victim but nowhere does he say or even hint at it. IE There is some evidence which is still being investigated which may suggest that the victim was seen in the company of another man the same time as the witness James Brown was alleged to have seen her. This would protect Schwartz whilst at the same time opening up the possibility that Brown was mistaken. Maybe just maybe the veracity of Schwartz was being investigated during the adjournment. But by the 23rd [Swanson's report is the 19th] he was considered to be too unreliable to take the stand, so the summing up went ahead.

[Dr. John Watson]

Anderson meant Schwartz when he wrote "Schwartz."

Josh is correct in naming Anderson as the source I had in mind when I added that bit about Schwartz testifying at Stride's inquest. When Anderson wrote the letter, he may not have known police failed to offer Schwartz as a witness since his non-identification would not have helped their case (it seems two other key witnesses apparently were not called). It's also possible Schwartz testified in a secret session, although that seems doubtful. It's become acceptable to write Anderson off as unreliable when he says something you don't agree with, but here there's no question he named "Schwartz" and not "Lawende." Incidentally, if Anderson was in error, Swanson made no effort to correct it. There's also a section on Schwartz in "A to Z" which discusses this matter fully, and until new evidence is found, I'll rely on the experts who wrote that as the best source on Schwartz.

Dr. John

[Trevor Marriott]

there is no evidence Schwartz appeared at the inquest. the main speculation was why not? I think stewart evans has evidence of why not, but not sure if its been publically disclosed. IMHO I think it may have to do with Schwartz not being to speak English, or maybe simply didn't show up.

I think the witness at the koz ID was probably lawende. Sugden makes a good case for it in his book.

Lawende was at the inquest, and was used later possibly twice, with sadler and possibly granger. Police valued him a credible and dependable witness so it was probably him.

any other discrepancies can probably be chalked up to Andersons wishful thinking and or faulty memory.

This whole seaside ID has more holes in it than a cullender and I dont think it ever took place as described, if at all.

Playing devils advocate here, If any ID parade was going to take place I would have expected all witnesses that had a possible sighting of the killer with any of the victims to have participated, but only one is mentioned.

If it were Lawende you have to remember he would have been a City witness and I would have expected there to have been some reference by someone recorded somewhere from the City Police about such an important ID issue as it is there is absolutely nothing, which goes to corroborate it didnt happen in the way suggested by Anderson and Swanson.

The parade it seems was initiated by the Met and I have to ask why would they have done all the organizing for a City witness, and not bother to take along Schwartz, there own witness, who again I dont believe ever saw the killer.

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk