Can George Chapmam reform himself to being a calculating poisoner seven years later?.

[Sam Flynn]

known to have a peaked cap

He is only known to have possessed a peaked ("sailor's") cap in the mid/late-1890s, a period during which he'd moved to the seaside and taken up sailing as a hobby; was this a coincidence? Could be, but I'd suggest it would have been less likely for him to have developed a particular fondness for sailing gear in land-locked Warsaw, where he still lived in the year before the Whitechapel Murders.

surgical experience

Not really.

[Jon Guy]

No more so than when Lucy Baderski (the real Mrs Kłosowski) and Annie Chapman, and their children, left him in the 1890s. It was also at the beginning of this decade that Kłosowski's son, Władysław, died in infancy.

Indeed, didn`t he move to the USA after the death of their son.

[Sam Flynn]

Indeed, didn`t he move to the USA after the death of their son.

I believe so, John - 1891.

[Jon Guy]

I believe so, John - 1891.

Yes, just after he had murdered Franny Coles.

[Sam Flynn]

Yes, just after he had murdered Franny Coles.

Welcome to National Circular Argument Week

I find it hard to believe that Kłosowski went out a-killing not long after the birth of his son, and barely a fortnight before his premature death. Recall that this was the same Kłosowski who had not long ago nursed back to health the sick child of Ethel Radin, something she remembered with apparent gratitude many years later. If he could do that for an unrelated mother and child, how much more so would he have been disposed to do so for his own (legitimate) wife and first son?

[Batman]

Surgical experience.

Not really.

"Not really" works perfectly well with JtR's mutilations. Knowledge seemed better than nothing but not that great either.

[Jon Guy]

Welcome to National Circular Argument Week

Why, thank you Gareth :-)

I find it hard to believe that Kłosowski went out a-killing not long after the birth of his son, and barely a fortnight before his premature death.
Recall that this was the same Kłosowski who had not long ago nursed back to health the sick child of Ethel Radin, something she remembered with apparent gratitude many years later.
If he could do that for an unrelated mother and child, how much more so would he have been disposed to do so for his own (legitimate) wife and first son?

Could it be a coincidence that the Radin child was sick, and nursed back to health by the poisoner, Chapman?

[Sam Flynn]

Could it be a coincidence that the Radin child was sick, and nursed back to health by the poisoner, Chapman?

We have no evidence that he acquired poison, nor started poisoning anyone, until after he'd moved to Hastings many, many years later. And why would a putative Jack the Ripper poison a child?

[Fisherman]

He was a violent misogynist who murdered women because he hates them basically. He enjoys the power and control over them and found a method to watch them suffer from poisoning which he believed he could do safely without detection. He was successful for a time.

The Ripper, on the other hand, was somebody who had an urge to cut women open and at times eviscerate them. They are not the same kind of creature at all, therefore.
So what about the money he gained from the first poison murder - a fringe benefit only? Watching her die was what he really wanted to do? And he had no urge whatsoever to open her up?

[Sam Flynn]

"Not really" works perfectly well with JtR's mutilations. Knowledge seemed better than nothing but not that great either.

Oh, absolutely, which just goes to show that we can't use Kłosowski's (non-)surgical experience to tie him to the Ripper murders, although this hasn't deterred some theorists in the past. Or present, for that matter.

[Jon Guy]

We have no evidence that he acquired poison, nor started poisoning anyone, until after he'd moved to Hastings many, many years later.

So, for that reason we ignore some one who is ill and recovers whilst living with a would be poisoner.
Do we know the details of the Radin boy`s illness ?

And why would a putative Jack the Ripper poison a child?

Because he`s a nutter and to inveigle himself into the family.
Perhaps, he was thinking that if the child dies it was a permanent room and a job for him ?

[Jon Guy]

Oh, absolutely, which just goes to show that we can't use Kłosowski's (non-)surgical experience to tie him to the Ripper murders, although this hasn't deterred some theorists in the past. Or present, for that matter.

But he no doubt had an interest in surgery !!

[Batman]

Radin puts Klosowski at her party on Monday 6th August, which is one hours walk away from where and when Tabram was murdered in the early hours of the morning.

Could have left the party heading to the city center when he ran into her on the way through Whitechapel.

[Batman]

The Ripper, on the other hand, was somebody who had an urge to cut women open and at times eviscerate them. They are not the same kind of creature at all, therefore.

H.H.Holmes - Poisoning/torture/you name it, he did it.
BTK - Massive bondage and strangulation urges. 14 years no murders and time spent harassing women as a compliance officer.

So what about the money he gained from the first poison murder - a fringe benefit only? Watching her die was what he really wanted to do? And he had no urge whatsoever to open her up?

Serial Killers can have self-control which is demonstrated by BTK and EARONS in the years they didn't kill. They satisfied their emotional needs another way.

MOs and Signatures not immutable.

[Sam Flynn]

So, for that reason we ignore some one who is ill and recovers whilst living with a would be poisoner.

We have absolutely no evidence that he acquired poison, or poisoned anyone, before he moved to Hastings in the mid-1890s. And, when he did poison, it was his "wives" whom he targeted - a classic Victorian poisoning scenario, if ever there was one.

Do we know the details of the Radin boy`s illness ?

I don't, I'm afraid.

Because he`s a nutter and to inveigle himself into the family.

We don't know that he had become a nutter at the time. His descent into nutterdom might have happened later, as a consequence or a cause of his breakups with Lucy and Annie.

Perhaps, he was thinking that if the child dies it was a permanent room and a job for him ?

Really? Bumping off a wee bairn just so he could move into his room? Besides, it's possible that Kłosowski already had a room of his own, unless he slept with ma and pa Radin.

The Radins themselves would shortly be on the move in any case, so neither the room nor the job might have been guaranteed.