Can anyone place roughly when Klosowski was in Whitechapel?

[Natalie Severn]

That would be Max(well) Starlice, a 47 year-old male assistant. A perfect occupation for someone with lice.

I know...but to me it looks more like Stairkie.


Chris,
I have no idea! But will keep an eye out for the name.
Cheers
Norma

[Scott Nelson]

I wonder if he played the drums? In any case it's obvious that he was bullied about by young Severin. A perfect serial killer in the making.

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Natalie,

Yes, some barber shops also functioned as clinics of various kinds. They were identified by those strange twisting/ spinning red and white cannister thingys you still above many a barber shop now. I can think of a barber shop in Covent Garden i have frequented that still has one.

On your first point, its an interesting theory. Yes, i find in hard to believe that he would have stopped killing if it was him, between the Whitechapel Murders and his wives much later on, and if it was, we can assume he enjoyed despatching of women using a variety of methods. I emphasise that I really don't think that he would have stopped between 1888 and later on in his life. How could he resist the urge when it was apparently so overwhelmingly powerful?

But he would have had to have brought your theoretical victims back to his place in Cable Street and killed them and buried them with his wife there which seems unlikely... unless he brought them back to the barbers in Whitechapel High Street. In which case they would still be there somewhere under the White Hart pub... this is all massive and crazy speculation i'm indulging in you understand. But worthy i think.

Do you know if the police ever dug up any of Klosowski's properties? Or workplaces?

Hi Pablito,
Yes, there are quite a few of the old Barber shops and red and white poles in the City in particular.

Klosowski aka George Chapman became the proprietor of the barber shop in Cable Street some time in 1888,probably in the Autumn of 1888. He presumably moved in alone as he wasnt to meet Lucy Baderski who became his wife until August 1889, at least 9 or 10 months later. According to her brother, Stanislaus Baderski, she was living with Klosowski after she married him in late October 1889 and they stayed in Cable Street for about six months.
So I believe we can state with reasonable confidence that Chapman was living alone,in the Autumn of 1888 ,in a deserted part of Whitechapel reached from The Whitechapel High Street by crossing the Commercial Road and walking down one of the streets off Commercial Road, such as Berner Street / Batty Street / Christian Street etc until reaching Pinchin Street where the Railway lines run over the vast run of railway arches,By going underneath the railway lines you reach Cable Street-a five minute walk from Whitechapel High Street.
Interestingly Chapman was living in Cable Street, on September 10th 1889 ,presumbly on his own since there is no entry for anyone other than " Severin Klosowski" in the Post Office Directory.This was the day the Pinchin Street Torso was discovered under one of the railway arches , more or less opposite his barber shop in Pinchin Street.
As for the police digging under any of his lodgings, no dig was ever done as far as we know. After all it wasnt until 15 years later, that Chapman hit the headlines as being a man who had poisoned three women .Abberline and others were definitely struck by the possibility he could have been the Ripper, but not much seems to have come of it.Severin Klosowski denied he was Severin Klosowski and denied he had poisoned any of his wives.He stated he was George Chapman and had been born in America.
One interesting feature to emerge from studying him is that whenever a woman was found murdered around the period, George Chapman is living alone.This even happens to have been the case when Mary Ann Austin was murdered in Dorset Street in May 1901. At this point Chapman had murdered his wife, Bessie Taylor , a few weeks earlier and was "between poisonings"![The next being 19 year old Maud Marsh the following October].
He was living in the Monument Pub Southwark,at the time, a short tram ride from Dorset Street, or a twenty five minute walk!

[Chris Scott]

Below is a larger version of the entry for Klosowski's 17 year old assistant in 1891
The official trancription makes him 77 and it reads as follows:
Name: Max Storikie
Age: 77
Estimated birth year: abt 1814
Relation: Assistant
Gender: Male
Where born: Poland, Russia
Civil parish: Whitechapel St Mary
Ecclesiastical parish: St Jude
County/Island: London
Country: England

As written below I read the surname as STOIRKIE

Personally I think the age is undoubtedly 17 years old and any confusion arises from the cross (an enumerator's mark) that precedes it

[Scott Nelson]

Yes, I agree STOIRKIE is how I read it now. The age, I don't think is 77 or 17.

[Natalie Severn]

Its difficult ---it could even be 14, Chris!

[Natalie Severn]

If Chapman actually was Jack the Ripper, then I doubt he ever did stop killing for long. I think he probably murdered homeless people whose remains were never discovered. But as far as we know, the police did not dig up floor boards or the back yard or garden areas of the many places where Klosowski/Chapman had lodged. over the intervening years. These days they dredge canals , dig up floor boards, cellars etc but with Chapman, possibly because the Ripper"s main claim to fame had happened 15 years before the murder trial, it wasnt thought to be worth the effort .But judging by some modern serial murder cases, dozens of bodies have eventually been found that could be linked to the one serial killer.
Another reason I believe Chapman had been "at it" long long before 1903, is the comment made by his compatriot,Wolff Levisohn,.This witness at Chapman"s murder trial had had the same training in medicine/ surgery as Chapman/Klosowski back in Poland and had practised there as a feldscher [doctor"s assistant]. In Whitechapel he had become a travelling salesman in hairdressing materials and witness at Chapman"s trial.
Levisohn claimed he had been asked by Chapman, between the years 1888 and 1890 ,to get some "medicine" for him on one occasion, which Levisohn had refused to do, stating he "did not want to get twelve years".A frequent method of helping women to obtain abortions at the time was to obtain an "abortion drug" through the black market. Additionally.some of the Barber Shops at the time still acted like clinics or chemists, providing help with minor injuries etc. so an apt place for a woman to have gone or "advice".

Pablito,
I wrote an article for Ripperologist last year on Chapman.I can send it you if you like.

[Pablito]

Pablito,
I wrote an article for Ripperologist last year on Chapman.I can send it you if you like.

I'd like that very much, Norma. Thank you. And thanks for the PM.

You're very clued up. Which saves me a lot of work! I'll contact you once i've had a read.

[Pablito]

Hi Pablito,
Yes, there are quite a few of the old Barber shops and red and white poles in the City in particular.

Klosowski aka George Chapman became the proprietor of the barber shop in Cable Street some time in 1888,probably in the Autumn of 1888. He presumably moved in alone as he wasnt to meet Lucy Baderski who became his wife until August 1889, at least 9 or 10 months later. According to her brother, Stanislaus Baderski, she was living with Klosowski after she married him in late October 1889 and they stayed in Cable Street for about six months.
So I believe we can state with reasonable confidence that Chapman was living alone,in the Autumn of 1888 ,in a deserted part of Whitechapel reached from The Whitechapel High Street by crossing the Commercial Road and walking down one of the streets off Commercial Road, such as Berner Street / Batty Street / Christian Street etc until reaching Pinchin Street where the Railway lines run over the vast run of railway arches,By going underneath the railway lines you reach Cable Street-a five minute walk from Whitechapel High Street.
Interestingly Chapman was living in Cable Street, on September 10th 1889 ,presumbly on his own since there is no entry for anyone other than " Severin Klosowski" in the Post Office Directory.This was the day the Pinchin Street Torso was discovered under one of the railway arches , more or less opposite his barber shop in Pinchin Street.
As for the police digging under any of his lodgings, no dig was ever done as far as we know. After all it wasnt until 15 years later, that Chapman hit the headlines as being a man who had poisoned three women .Abberline and others were definitely struck by the possibility he could have been the Ripper, but not much seems to have come of it.Severin Klosowski denied he was Severin Klosowski and denied he had poisoned any of his wives.He stated he was George Chapman and had been born in America.
One interesting feature to emerge from studying him is that whenever a woman was found murdered around the period, George Chapman is living alone.This even happens to have been the case when Mary Ann Austin was murdered in Dorset Street in May 1901. At this point Chapman had murdered his wife, Bessie Taylor , a few weeks earlier and was "between poisonings"![The next being 19 year old Maud Marsh the following October].
He was living in the Monument Pub Southwark,at the time, a short tram ride from Dorset Street, or a twenty five minute walk!

Brilliant work!!! Thanks so much for this Norma. I'll have a look at all the info when I get a bit more of a chance on Friday.

[Adam Went]

Good stuff Nats. I just had a thought that maybe a way to have found out more accurately when Klosowski arrived in London would have been to ask Abraham Radin, the man who he worked for when he first arrived, at West India Dock Road.....he surely would have known a little more about him. Obviously it's a little late now, but it might have been worthwhile for Abberline & Co to do when their suspicions were aroused.

On Lucy Baderski....she might not have been aware of when he arrived, but it's interesting to note that his meeting with her virtually coincides with the murder of Alice Mackenzie (July 1889), which IMO is the last possible Ripper murder....once in the relationship, decided to give it away, perhaps?

Cheers,
Adam.

[Natalie Severn]

Good stuff Nats. I just had a thought that maybe a way to have found out more accurately when Klosowski arrived in London would have been to ask Abraham Radin, the man who he worked for when he first arrived, at West India Dock Road.....he surely would have known a little more about him. Obviously it's a little late now, but it might have been worthwhile for Abberline & Co to do when their suspicions were aroused.

On Lucy Baderski....she might not have been aware of when he arrived, but it's interesting to note that his meeting with her virtually coincides with the murder of Alice Mackenzie (July 1889), which IMO is the last possible Ripper murder....once in the relationship, decided to give it away, perhaps?

Cheers,
Adam.

Thanks Adam----and thanks Pablito to both of you for the kind words!

Regarding when Klosowski/Chapman arrived here.Arthur Neil ,who worked on The Chapman Inquiry ,wrote in 1932, in his book entitled ,"Forty Years of Manhunting" that Chapman arrived in June 1887.But this is not backed up by any evidence.The only information we have prior to his arrival here that lends the possibility of that being true is that his hospital records in Warsaw end very abruptly after 28th February 1887 , immediately after he had paid his 'hospital fees" paid up until 3 March 1887 .They followed his request to sit for the examination of Junior Surgeon to the Medical Administration of Warsaw and his request was granted dated December 5th 1886, while he was completing his training at the Praga Hospital after a long apprecticeship which began in 1880 when he was 15 .
I believe we have a clue about when he may have arrived here from the little book entitled " 500 Prescriptions for Diseases and Complaints" written in Polish, found in his bedroom after his arrest and in which he wrote his name "Severin Klosowski" and his then address 54 Cranbrook Street, Green Street.This street is about a mile and a half North of the Docks where he would most likely have landed in England.We know he lodged with the Radin"s for five months and that the Radins were only listed as being at their address of 70 West India Dock Road for the year of 1888 We know too that Klosowski was later in 1888 living in ,or the proprietor of, the barber shop in Cable Street.Both Neil and Abberline are likewise insistent that he lived in George Yard in 1888 .We dont know what access to this information they had but Levisohn ,in his court testimony stated he met him at the basement barber shop under the Whitehart Public House, Whitechapel High Street/ George Yard, in 1888!!!Possibly he was there too-or only worked there for awhile in 1888-but Levisohn is actually quite insistent stating," I have known the accused since 1888 when I met him at a hairdressers shop in Whitechapel."...and then...."We met from time to time UP TO 1890" Make of it what you will! Some people on here have wondered whether Levisohn"s testimony was altogether reliable [it was after all about matters pertaining to 15 years previous to the trial] but I suspect he was trying to be as accurate as possible myself,since he was giving this testimony under oath at the murder trial.
Abraham Radin did not appear in court Adam, his wife Ethel did.She could only remember that he stayed with her about 15 years before ie 1888 and that he was there five months.

[Chris Scott]

1891 census
Head: Abraham Radin aged 26 born Russia - Hairdresser
Wife: Aphel Radin aged 26 born Russia
Children:
Solomon aged 4 born Limehouse
Isaac aged 2 born Whitechapel
Boarder:
Symon Krichevsky aged 26 born Russia - Traveller in drapery (Coster)
Servant:
Katy Munter aged 64 born Germany


Death of Radin:
Name: Abraham Radin
Death Registration Month/Year: 1938
Age at death (estimated): 73
Registration district: Rochford
Inferred County: Essex

[Adam Went]

Thanks for that info, Nats and Chris.

It's interesting to see that Klosowski and Radin were exactly the same age, one from Poland and one from Russia, so both from Eastern Europe.....perhaps Radin decided that somebody his age and from his part of the world deserved a chance upon arrival.

I reckon that Arthur Neil had it about right with June 1887. It's not particularly important I guess because we know Klosowski was in London through the entire period of the murders, but it is important in its own way because the longer he had been there, the longer he would have had to acquaint himself with the area, its people, police officers on the beat, etc, and therefore, where and when his best chances of picking his victims would be. The longer he spent in the country, the better his English would have become as well. So if we assume that he had been in London for roughly a year, give or take a couple of months, when the murders started, surely that would have been long enough? And it seems to be roughly accurate as well, given the statements that you mentioned, Nats.

Cheers,
Adam.

[Chris Scott]

Sorry - I forgot Radin's address in 1891 and the street may be of interest...
57 Brunswick Buildings, Goulston Street, Whitechapel

[Natalie Severn]

Sorry - I forgot Radin's address in 1891 and the street may be of interest...
57 Brunswick Buildings, Goulston Street, Whitechapel

Goulston Street? That is interesting! Ta Chris- thats quite amazing!