A closer look at George Hutchinson

[The Rookie Detective]

Hello RD,

I don’t know if this comment was aimed entirely at me or in part at me so I may be jumping the gun here but I’d just like to say that I wasn’t belittling your idea at any point. I accepted the possibility that false names could have been used but, as I’d seen suggestions made in the past, I felt, without being able to provide the evidence, that it was more a case of them both not being conclusively identified.

Hi Herlock


Ah no, it certainly WASN'T aimed at you.


It wasn't aimed at anyone in particular; just a generalised comment.


I have far too much respect and admiration for you to even consider directing any negative comments toward you (or anyone else for that matter)


RD

[Sunny Delight]

The Pall Mall Gazette, November 14th, 1888, page 9:



St. George's Workhouse, Mint Street, Southwark - Register of Vagrants - Admissions - October 29th-31st, 1885:



George Hutchinson, groom, is the 14th entry on the page.

Is this a recent discovery? His age is interesting- he would have been 33 by the time he spoke to the Police in 1888, if this is 'our' George Hutchinson.

[The Rookie Detective]

Is this a recent discovery? His age is interesting- he would have been 33 by the time he spoke to the Police in 1888, if this is 'our' George Hutchinson.

I would say that because this official document from the Southwark Workhouse in 1885 clearly mentions he's a Groom, he is a vagrant who walks about, his age of 33 in 1888 and the fact that the 2nd page that accompanied this document states he is on his way to "London" (via Southwark)

So we have a name, age, occupation, geographical location and a personal status that would all appear to match; or very closely match what we know about "our" Hutchinson.


Forget George Topping Hutchinson; the guy in this document uploaded by Belloc is the correct man


RD

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Herlock


Ah no, it certainly WASN'T aimed at you.


It wasn't aimed at anyone in particular; just a generalised comment.


I have far too much respect and admiration for you to even consider directing any negative comments toward you (or anyone else for that matter)


RD

No problem RD. It’s just that when sarcasm is mentioned on here it’s usually about me. And usually with good reason tbh.

[Belloc]

Here’s a comparison of George Hutchinson’s statement to the police with his statement to a press agency.

Statement to Metropolitan Police, Commercial Street on November 12th, 1888	Statement to the reporter of a news agency on November 13th, 1888
U.K. National Archives, catalogue ref. MEPO 3/140	The Pall Mall Gazette, London, November 14th, 1888, page 9
About 2 am 9th I was coming by Thrawl Street, Commercial Steet,	On Thursday I had been to Romford, and I returned from there about two o’clock on Friday morning, having walked all the way. I came down Whitechapel-road into Commercial-street. As I passed Thrawl-street I passed a man standing at the corner of the street,
and just before I got to Flower and Dean Street I met the murdered woman Kelly,	and as I went towards Flower and Dean-street I met the woman Kelly, whom I knew very well, having been in her company a number of times.
	Kelly did not seem to me to be drunk, but was a little bit spreeish.
and she said to me Hutchinson will you lend me sixpence.	She said, “Mr. Hutchinson, can you lend me sixpence?”
I said I cant I have spent all my money going down to Romford	I said, “I cannot, as I am spent out, going down to Romford.”
she said good morning I must go and find some money, she went away towards Thrawl Street.	She then walked on towards Thrawl-street, saying, “I must go and look for some money.”
A man coming in the opposite direction to Kelly tapped her on the shoulder and said something to her they both burst out laughing.	The man who was standing at the corner of Thrawl-street then came towards her, put his hand on her shoulder, and said something to her which I did not hear; they both burst out laughing.
I heard her say alright to him, and the man said you will be alright, for what I have told you, he then placed his right hand around her shoulders.	He put his hand again on her shoulder, and they both walked slowly towards me.
He also had a kind of a small parcel in his left hand, with a kind of a strap round it.	The man carried a small parcel in his hand about eight inches long, and it had a strap round it. He had it tightly grasped in his left hand. It looked as though it was covered in dark American cloth.
I stood against the lamp of the [Ten Bell deleted] Queens Head Public House, and watched him.	I walked on to the corner of Fashion Street, near the public house.
They had then come past me and the man hung down his head with his hat over his eyes.	As they came by me his arm was still on her shoulder. He had a soft felt hat on, and this was drawn down somewhat over his eyes.
I stooped down and looked him in the face. He looked at me stern.	I put down my head to look him in the face, and he turned and looked at me very sternly.
They both went into Dorset Street I followed them.	They walked across the road to Dorset-street. I followed them across, and stood at the corner of Dorset-street.
They both stood at the corner of the court for about 3 minutes.	They stood at the corner of Miller’s-court for about three minutes.
He said something to her, she said alright my dear come along you will be comfortable. He then placed his arm on her shoulder and gave her a kiss.
She said she had lost her handkerchief, he then pulled his handkerchief a red one out and gave it to her.	Kelly spoke to the man in a loud voice, saying, “I have lost my handkerchief.” He pulled a red handkerchief out of his pocket and gave it to Kelly,
They both then went up the court together.	and they went up the court together.
	I went up the court, and stayed there a couple of minutes, but did not see any light in the house, or hear any noise.
I then went to the court to see if I could see them but could not I stood there for about three quarters of an hour, to see if they came out they did not so I went away.	I went to look up the court to see if I could see them, but could not. I stood there for three-quarters of an hour to see if they came down again, but they did not, and so I went away.
	One policeman went by the Commercial-street end of Dorset-street while I was standing there, but not one came down Dorset-street.
	When I left the corner of Miller’s-court the clock struck three.
	My suspicions were aroused by seeing the man so well dressed, but I had no suspicion that he was the murderer.
	After I left the court I walked about all night, as the place where I usually sleep was closed. I came in as soon as it opened in the morning.
Description age about 34 or 35	about thirty-four or thirty-five years of age
height 5 feet 6	The man was about 5 ft. 6 in. in height
complexion pale	dark complexion
dark eyes and eyelashes	dark eyes and bushy eyebrows
[dark deleted] slight moustache, curled up each end	dark moustache turned up at the ends… He had a heavy moustache, curled up
	He had no side whiskers, and his chin was clean shaven.
hair dark
very surley [sic] looking
dress long dark coat	He was wearing a long, dark coat,
collar and cuffs trimmed astracan [sic]	trimmed with astrachan [sic]
and a dark jacket under
light waistcoat
dark trousers
dark felt hat turned down in the middle
button boots and gaiters with white buttons	He wore a pair of dark “spats” with light buttons, over button boots,
wore a very thick gold chain	And displayed from his waistcoat a massive gold chain. His watch chain had a big seal, with a red stone hanging from it.
white linen collar	a white collar,
black tie with horse shoe pin	With black necktie, in which was affixed a horse-shoe pin.
respectable appearance
	He carried in his right hand, which he laid upon the woman’s shoulder, a pair of brown kid gloves.
walked very sharp	One thing I noticed, and that was that he walked very softly.
Jewish appearance	He looked like a foreigner.
Can be identified	I could swear to the man anywhere.
	I believe that he lives in the neighbourhood, and I fancied that I saw him in Petticoat-lane on Sunday morning, but I was not certain.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Herlock


Ah no, it certainly WASN'T aimed at you.


It wasn't aimed at anyone in particular; just a generalised comment.


I have far too much respect and admiration for you to even consider directing any negative comments toward you (or anyone else for that matter)


RD

No problem RD. It’s just that when sarcasm is mentioned on here it’s usually about me. And usually with good reason tbh.

[Abby Normal]

Here’s a comparison of George Hutchinson’s statement to the police with his statement to a press agency.

Statement to Metropolitan Police, Commercial Street on November 12th, 1888	Statement to the reporter of a news agency on November 13th, 1888
U.K. National Archives, catalogue ref. MEPO 3/140	The Pall Mall Gazette, London, November 14th, 1888, page 9
About 2 am 9th I was coming by Thrawl Street, Commercial Steet,	On Thursday I had been to Romford, and I returned from there about two o’clock on Friday morning, having walked all the way. I came down Whitechapel-road into Commercial-street. As I passed Thrawl-street I passed a man standing at the corner of the street,
and just before I got to Flower and Dean Street I met the murdered woman Kelly,	and as I went towards Flower and Dean-street I met the woman Kelly, whom I knew very well, having been in her company a number of times.
	Kelly did not seem to me to be drunk, but was a little bit spreeish.
and she said to me Hutchinson will you lend me sixpence.	She said, “Mr. Hutchinson, can you lend me sixpence?”
I said I cant I have spent all my money going down to Romford	I said, “I cannot, as I am spent out, going down to Romford.”
she said good morning I must go and find some money, she went away towards Thrawl Street.	She then walked on towards Thrawl-street, saying, “I must go and look for some money.”
A man coming in the opposite direction to Kelly tapped her on the shoulder and said something to her they both burst out laughing.	The man who was standing at the corner of Thrawl-street then came towards her, put his hand on her shoulder, and said something to her which I did not hear; they both burst out laughing.
I heard her say alright to him, and the man said you will be alright, for what I have told you, he then placed his right hand around her shoulders.	He put his hand again on her shoulder, and they both walked slowly towards me.
He also had a kind of a small parcel in his left hand, with a kind of a strap round it.	The man carried a small parcel in his hand about eight inches long, and it had a strap round it. He had it tightly grasped in his left hand. It looked as though it was covered in dark American cloth.
I stood against the lamp of the [Ten Bell deleted] Queens Head Public House, and watched him.	I walked on to the corner of Fashion Street, near the public house.
They had then come past me and the man hung down his head with his hat over his eyes.	As they came by me his arm was still on her shoulder. He had a soft felt hat on, and this was drawn down somewhat over his eyes.
I stooped down and looked him in the face. He looked at me stern.	I put down my head to look him in the face, and he turned and looked at me very sternly.
They both went into Dorset Street I followed them.	They walked across the road to Dorset-street. I followed them across, and stood at the corner of Dorset-street.
They both stood at the corner of the court for about 3 minutes.	They stood at the corner of Miller’s-court for about three minutes.
He said something to her, she said alright my dear come along you will be comfortable. He then placed his arm on her shoulder and gave her a kiss.
She said she had lost her handkerchief, he then pulled his handkerchief a red one out and gave it to her.	Kelly spoke to the man in a loud voice, saying, “I have lost my handkerchief.” He pulled a red handkerchief out of his pocket and gave it to Kelly,
They both then went up the court together.	and they went up the court together.
	I went up the court, and stayed there a couple of minutes, but did not see any light in the house, or hear any noise.
I then went to the court to see if I could see them but could not I stood there for about three quarters of an hour, to see if they came out they did not so I went away.	I went to look up the court to see if I could see them, but could not. I stood there for three-quarters of an hour to see if they came down again, but they did not, and so I went away.
	One policeman went by the Commercial-street end of Dorset-street while I was standing there, but not one came down Dorset-street.
	When I left the corner of Miller’s-court the clock struck three.
	My suspicions were aroused by seeing the man so well dressed, but I had no suspicion that he was the murderer.
	After I left the court I walked about all night, as the place where I usually sleep was closed. I came in as soon as it opened in the morning.
Description age about 34 or 35	about thirty-four or thirty-five years of age
height 5 feet 6	The man was about 5 ft. 6 in. in height
complexion pale	dark complexion
dark eyes and eyelashes	dark eyes and bushy eyebrows
[dark deleted] slight moustache, curled up each end	dark moustache turned up at the ends… He had a heavy moustache, curled up
	He had no side whiskers, and his chin was clean shaven.
hair dark
very surley [sic] looking
dress long dark coat	He was wearing a long, dark coat,
collar and cuffs trimmed astracan [sic]	trimmed with astrachan [sic]
and a dark jacket under
light waistcoat
dark trousers
dark felt hat turned down in the middle
button boots and gaiters with white buttons	He wore a pair of dark “spats” with light buttons, over button boots,
wore a very thick gold chain	And displayed from his waistcoat a massive gold chain. His watch chain had a big seal, with a red stone hanging from it.
white linen collar	a white collar,
black tie with horse shoe pin	With black necktie, in which was affixed a horse-shoe pin.
respectable appearance
	He carried in his right hand, which he laid upon the woman’s shoulder, a pair of brown kid gloves.
walked very sharp	One thing I noticed, and that was that he walked very softly.
Jewish appearance	He looked like a foreigner.
Can be identified	I could swear to the man anywhere.
	I believe that he lives in the neighbourhood, and I fancied that I saw him in Petticoat-lane on Sunday morning, but I was not certain.

very interesting. thanks for posting this belloc. this only reiterates how ridiculous hutches story is...all the minute details, the script like movements, the non sequitors. no other witness statement even comes close.

whats also very curious is that in his first statement to police he omits he went into the court and stood near her place. now indicating he actually knows exactly where she lives. hmmmm.

wonder if he ever came later to see if kelly was alone again during his all night wandering. im sure he did.

[Patrick Differ]

What strikes me about Hutchinson is why he waited to come forward, his detail of the killer, and his possible sighting on Middlesex Street after the murder. The latter yet another coincidence to 2 other suspects, Levy and Maybrick. Hutchinson says he knew Kelly well and likely cared for her. My guess would be after passing the well dressed man his suspicion was aroused right after he left Kelly and the same man approached her. Something did not sit right and he likely blamed himself for her death. That seems reasonable.
if his senses were heightened because of JtR he may have lingered and felt protective on some level and wanted to check this character, who appeared out of place with his dress. Hutchinson was adamant he could identify him.
As far as Hutchinsons suspects dress and Astrakan is concerned, that actually ties to Petticoat Lane and the Rag Trade. The Jewish tradesman were making knockoffs of higher end fashions. Shabby gentile seems to be a valid description of that time and trade.
The description of the parcel describing American Cloth is interesting since it appears to mean canvas. Butchers used this type of parcel ( with a strap ) for organization. You can find these on line.
When JtR left Eddowes and eventually made his way to Goulston Street he would be in the same general location as the Kelly murder and Middlesex Street ( where Hutchinson saw JtR after Kelly's murder?)
I believe Hutchinson waited because he was afraid and blamed himself for Kelly's death. But he also knew he needed to come forward. Abberline interviewed him 3 times and his story was consistent.
if JtR stopped with Kelly and lived in the City and not Metro, and if JtR then knew Hutchinson could identify him through press reports, he may very well have gone to ground. This seems to also dovetail into the Jewish Butcher Theory and it could be that Hutchinson was the one who finally identified him.

[c.d.]

Shabby gentile seems to be a valid description of that time and trade.

Sorry, but the expression is shabby genteel. Shabby gentile would be a poorly dressed Jewish person. Shabby genteel could refer to anyone whose clothes indicate that they have seen better days.

c.d.

[c.d.]

Correction -- a gentile would be a non-Jewish person.

c.d.

[Patrick Differ]

Have to love spell checking. Thanks c.d. cheers

[Herlock Sholmes]

It’s a strange one…


Sarah Lewis deposed: “I live at 24, Great Pearl-street, and am a laundress. I know Mrs. Keyler, in Miller's-court, and went to her house at 2, Miller's-court, at 2.30a.m. on Friday. It is the first house. I noticed the time by the Spitalfields' Church clock. When I went into the court, opposite the lodging-house I saw a man with a wideawake. There was no one talking to him. He was a stout-looking man, and not very tall. The hat was black. I did not take any notice of his clothes. The man was looking up the court; he seemed to be waiting or looking for some one. Further on there was a man and woman - the later being in drink. There was nobody in the court. I dozed in a chair at Mrs. Keyler's, and woke at about half- past three. I heard the clock strike.”

So Sarah Lewis sees a man ‘opposite the lodging house.’ What does she mean by that? It appears to mean at the entrance to Miller’s Court or wouldn’t she have said that the man was standing ‘outside’ the lodging house..therefore across the street? And as Hutchinson talked about ‘leaving the corner of Miller’s Court’ this appears to confirm where the man (Hutchinson) was standing. But this begs an obvious question…if Hutchinson was there, and Sarah Lewis entered the court with him standing there and with Mary and Astrakhan Man up ahead, how did Hutchinson not see her? She would have walked straight passed him. And even if the man (Hutchinson) was across the road outside the lodging house watching the court, and Lewis entered in time to see Mary and Astrakhan man, again we have to ask how Hutchinson managed not to see her enter the court?

“When I left the corner of Miller's court the clock struck three o'clock. One policeman went by the Commercial street end of Dorset street while I was standing there, but not one came down Dorset street. I saw one man go into a lodging house in Dorset street, but no one else. I have been looking for the man all day.”

No mention of seeing a woman enter the court alone.

Have I missed something?

[Abby Normal]

It’s a strange one…


Sarah Lewis deposed: “I live at 24, Great Pearl-street, and am a laundress. I know Mrs. Keyler, in Miller's-court, and went to her house at 2, Miller's-court, at 2.30a.m. on Friday. It is the first house. I noticed the time by the Spitalfields' Church clock. When I went into the court, opposite the lodging-house I saw a man with a wideawake. There was no one talking to him. He was a stout-looking man, and not very tall. The hat was black. I did not take any notice of his clothes. The man was looking up the court; he seemed to be waiting or looking for some one. Further on there was a man and woman - the later being in drink. There was nobody in the court. I dozed in a chair at Mrs. Keyler's, and woke at about half- past three. I heard the clock strike.”

So Sarah Lewis sees a man ‘opposite the lodging house.’ What does she mean by that? It appears to mean at the entrance to Miller’s Court or wouldn’t she have said that the man was standing ‘outside’ the lodging house..therefore across the street? And as Hutchinson talked about ‘leaving the corner of Miller’s Court’ this appears to confirm where the man (Hutchinson) was standing. But this begs an obvious question…if Hutchinson was there, and Sarah Lewis entered the court with him standing there and with Mary and Astrakhan Man up ahead, how did Hutchinson not see her? She would have walked straight passed him. And even if the man (Hutchinson) was across the road outside the lodging house watching the court, and Lewis entered in time to see Mary and Astrakhan man, again we have to ask how Hutchinson managed not to see her enter the court?

“When I left the corner of Miller's court the clock struck three o'clock. One policeman went by the Commercial street end of Dorset street while I was standing there, but not one came down Dorset street. I saw one man go into a lodging house in Dorset street, but no one else. I have been looking for the man all day.”

No mention of seeing a woman enter the court alone.

Have I missed something?

nope. either he just missed or forgot about her or deliberately left her out. some have posited that he deliberately left her out because it was her seeing him that drew him out to come forward (if he was guilty of course). so he didnt want to mention her as he wamted to make it seem he is just an innocent helpful witness who came forward on his own accord.

[Herlock Sholmes]

nope. either he just missed or forgot about her or deliberately left her out. some have posited that he deliberately left her out because it was her seeing him that drew him out to come forward (if he was guilty of course). so he didnt want to mention her as he wamted to make it seem he is just an innocent helpful witness who came forward on his own accord.

I can’t help wondering if he’d been asked whether he’d seen her though Abby? It seems an obvious question.

[Abby Normal]

I can’t help wondering if he’d been asked whether he’d seen her though Abby? It seems an obvious question.

you would think. especially since abberline had just heard sarah lewis say she saw him out there waiting and watching the court. the same thing hutch was saying he was doing!!!!