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A closer look at George Hutchinson

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  • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

    Hello RD,

    I don’t know if this comment was aimed entirely at me or in part at me so I may be jumping the gun here but I’d just like to say that I wasn’t belittling your idea at any point. I accepted the possibility that false names could have been used but, as I’d seen suggestions made in the past, I felt, without being able to provide the evidence, that it was more a case of them both not being conclusively identified.
    Hi Herlock


    Ah no, it certainly WASN'T aimed at you.


    It wasn't aimed at anyone in particular; just a generalised comment.


    I have far too much respect and admiration for you to even consider directing any negative comments toward you (or anyone else for that matter)


    RD
    Last edited by The Rookie Detective; 08-16-2024, 09:30 AM.
    "Great minds, don't think alike"

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Belloc View Post


      The Pall Mall Gazette, November 14th, 1888, page 9:

      Click image for larger version

Name:	George_Hutchinson_the_groom_Pall_Mall_Gazette_14_Nov_1888_page_9.jpg
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ID:	839812

      St. George's Workhouse, Mint Street, Southwark - Register of Vagrants - Admissions - October 29th-31st, 1885:

      Click image for larger version

Name:	George Hutchinson - Vagrants Reg. - St Georges Workhouse - 1885.jpg
Views:	283
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ID:	839813

      George Hutchinson, groom, is the 14th entry on the page.
      Is this a recent discovery? His age is interesting- he would have been 33 by the time he spoke to the Police in 1888, if this is 'our' George Hutchinson.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Sunny Delight View Post

        Is this a recent discovery? His age is interesting- he would have been 33 by the time he spoke to the Police in 1888, if this is 'our' George Hutchinson.
        I would say that because this official document from the Southwark Workhouse in 1885 clearly mentions he's a Groom, he is a vagrant who walks about, his age of 33 in 1888 and the fact that the 2nd page that accompanied this document states he is on his way to "London" (via Southwark)

        So we have a name, age, occupation, geographical location and a personal status that would all appear to match; or very closely match what we know about "our" Hutchinson.


        Forget George Topping Hutchinson; the guy in this document uploaded by Belloc is the correct man


        RD
        Last edited by The Rookie Detective; 08-16-2024, 09:46 AM.
        "Great minds, don't think alike"

        Comment


        • Originally posted by The Rookie Detective View Post

          Hi Herlock


          Ah no, it certainly WASN'T aimed at you.


          It wasn't aimed at anyone in particular; just a generalised comment.


          I have far too much respect and admiration for you to even consider directing any negative comments toward you (or anyone else for that matter)


          RD
          No problem RD. It’s just that when sarcasm is mentioned on here it’s usually about me. And usually with good reason tbh.
          Regards

          Sir Herlock Sholmes.

          “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

          Comment


          • Here’s a comparison of George Hutchinson’s statement to the police with his statement to a press agency.
            Statement to Metropolitan Police, Commercial Street on November 12th, 1888 Statement to the reporter of a news agency on November 13th, 1888
            U.K. National Archives, catalogue ref. MEPO 3/140 The Pall Mall Gazette, London, November 14th, 1888, page 9
            About 2 am 9th I was coming by Thrawl Street, Commercial Steet, On Thursday I had been to Romford, and I returned from there about two o’clock on Friday morning, having walked all the way. I came down Whitechapel-road into Commercial-street. As I passed Thrawl-street I passed a man standing at the corner of the street,
            and just before I got to Flower and Dean Street I met the murdered woman Kelly, and as I went towards Flower and Dean-street I met the woman Kelly, whom I knew very well, having been in her company a number of times.
            Kelly did not seem to me to be drunk, but was a little bit spreeish.
            and she said to me Hutchinson will you lend me sixpence. She said, “Mr. Hutchinson, can you lend me sixpence?”
            I said I cant I have spent all my money going down to Romford I said, “I cannot, as I am spent out, going down to Romford.”
            she said good morning I must go and find some money, she went away towards Thrawl Street. She then walked on towards Thrawl-street, saying, “I must go and look for some money.”
            A man coming in the opposite direction to Kelly tapped her on the shoulder and said something to her they both burst out laughing. The man who was standing at the corner of Thrawl-street then came towards her, put his hand on her shoulder, and said something to her which I did not hear; they both burst out laughing.
            I heard her say alright to him, and the man said you will be alright, for what I have told you, he then placed his right hand around her shoulders. He put his hand again on her shoulder, and they both walked slowly towards me.
            He also had a kind of a small parcel in his left hand, with a kind of a strap round it. The man carried a small parcel in his hand about eight inches long, and it had a strap round it. He had it tightly grasped in his left hand. It looked as though it was covered in dark American cloth.
            I stood against the lamp of the [Ten Bell deleted] Queens Head Public House, and watched him. I walked on to the corner of Fashion Street, near the public house.
            They had then come past me and the man hung down his head with his hat over his eyes. As they came by me his arm was still on her shoulder. He had a soft felt hat on, and this was drawn down somewhat over his eyes.
            I stooped down and looked him in the face. He looked at me stern. I put down my head to look him in the face, and he turned and looked at me very sternly.
            They both went into Dorset Street I followed them. They walked across the road to Dorset-street. I followed them across, and stood at the corner of Dorset-street.
            They both stood at the corner of the court for about 3 minutes. They stood at the corner of Miller’s-court for about three minutes.
            He said something to her, she said alright my dear come along you will be comfortable. He then placed his arm on her shoulder and gave her a kiss.
            She said she had lost her handkerchief, he then pulled his handkerchief a red one out and gave it to her. Kelly spoke to the man in a loud voice, saying, “I have lost my handkerchief.” He pulled a red handkerchief out of his pocket and gave it to Kelly,
            They both then went up the court together. and they went up the court together.
            I went up the court, and stayed there a couple of minutes, but did not see any light in the house, or hear any noise.
            I then went to the court to see if I could see them but could not I stood there for about three quarters of an hour, to see if they came out they did not so I went away. I went to look up the court to see if I could see them, but could not. I stood there for three-quarters of an hour to see if they came down again, but they did not, and so I went away.
            One policeman went by the Commercial-street end of Dorset-street while I was standing there, but not one came down Dorset-street.
            When I left the corner of Miller’s-court the clock struck three.
            My suspicions were aroused by seeing the man so well dressed, but I had no suspicion that he was the murderer.
            After I left the court I walked about all night, as the place where I usually sleep was closed. I came in as soon as it opened in the morning.
            Description age about 34 or 35 about thirty-four or thirty-five years of age
            height 5 feet 6 The man was about 5 ft. 6 in. in height
            complexion pale dark complexion
            dark eyes and eyelashes dark eyes and bushy eyebrows
            [dark deleted] slight moustache, curled up each end dark moustache turned up at the ends… He had a heavy moustache, curled up
            He had no side whiskers, and his chin was clean shaven.
            hair dark
            very surley [sic] looking
            dress long dark coat He was wearing a long, dark coat,
            collar and cuffs trimmed astracan [sic] trimmed with astrachan [sic]
            and a dark jacket under
            light waistcoat
            dark trousers
            dark felt hat turned down in the middle
            button boots and gaiters with white buttons He wore a pair of dark “spats” with light buttons, over button boots,
            wore a very thick gold chain And displayed from his waistcoat a massive gold chain. His watch chain had a big seal, with a red stone hanging from it.
            white linen collar a white collar,
            black tie with horse shoe pin With black necktie, in which was affixed a horse-shoe pin.
            respectable appearance
            He carried in his right hand, which he laid upon the woman’s shoulder, a pair of brown kid gloves.
            walked very sharp One thing I noticed, and that was that he walked very softly.
            Jewish appearance He looked like a foreigner.
            Can be identified I could swear to the man anywhere.
            I believe that he lives in the neighbourhood, and I fancied that I saw him in Petticoat-lane on Sunday morning, but I was not certain.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by The Rookie Detective View Post

              Hi Herlock


              Ah no, it certainly WASN'T aimed at you.


              It wasn't aimed at anyone in particular; just a generalised comment.


              I have far too much respect and admiration for you to even consider directing any negative comments toward you (or anyone else for that matter)


              RD
              No problem RD. It’s just that when sarcasm is mentioned on here it’s usually about me. And usually with good reason tbh.
              Regards

              Sir Herlock Sholmes.

              “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

              Comment

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