Another George Hutchinson

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

Is the argument that George Hutchinson didn't exist at all? I can live with an actual, real George giving a false statement. Doesn't mean I believe that, but it's no more outlandish than other theories. Wouldn't that be easier for Scotland Yard than a total fabrication, especially when the press start snooping around. And visiting the address given looking for him and what not. Really, just pay someone to make a false statement if you need a stereotypical Jew to blame. It also makes police conspiracy theories easier too.

[jerryd]

Re Abby Normal post #13

Hi Abby somehow I dont think it is the same chap but I could be wrong, I got an impression that he maybe worked at dock labouring after but could be wrong. I just thought I might find all the GH's I can that have a connection and post them up. I would hope someone might see something I cant. Starting on another George soon. I might unintentionally be repeating old research of others, apologies if I am. ...

Paddy,

You posted on the Jtrforums about this guy.(see post #18 http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread....+potter&page=2 ) He was an apprentice to John Potter of 18, Billiter Street. John Potter owned a shop as a sail maker and ships chandler. This George Hutchinson, as you pointed out in your original post here, was an exemplary rigger, which would fall in line with an apprenticeship under Potter and manufacturing sails and equipment for sails.


October 2nd, 1883

[jerryd]

There is information on this thread.

https://forum.casebook.org/forum/ripper-discussions/suspects/hutchinson-george/6403-hutchinson-the-sailor-man

[DJA]

On Thursday 30th August 1888, the day before Polly Nichols' murder, a book began weekly serialization in the Pall Mall Budget. It ran over 10 weeks, with the final installment appearing on Thursday 8th November 1888, the day before the Millers Court murder.

The book was "The Mystery of Cloomber" by Arthur Conan Doyle.

It was illustrated in part by George Hutchinson, who went on to illustrate some of the Sherlock Holmes stories.

A subliminal choice of name by Abberline for his fictional witness?

It is thought that WT Stead's 1885 series of articles "The Maiden Tribute of Babylon" encouraged The Criminal Amendment Act 1885 and RL Stevenson's novella.
RLS considered Mr Hyde a hypocrite.
The young girl trampled by Hyde fits a girl who was a member of St.Leonards Church circa 1868.
Her name was Mary Ann Kelly.

[Paddy]

Jerryd re post 32 ....That was George Inverleith Hutchinson born 1860, who was said to have been born in Clapton. I thought he might have been the one that was arrested in Australia. .........This one the training "Exmouth" ship in this thread was George Edward Hutchinson born in 1866 Mile End. I am going boss eyed with George Hutchinsons I have done about 4 so far. I shall have to get then in some order to compare when I have done a few and put on here. (Apologies to Lechmere who found this George Edward Hutchinson in 2011 thanks for the link to the old thread Jerryd)

[Losmandris]

I often imagine that the most likely explanation for George Hutchinson was that he felt like he had to clear his name as he had been identified as being in the area at the time of the murder. In order to make his story more credible he either makes up or embellishes the character he saw, I just cant imagine a person like Astrakhan man wandering about the east end would not have been noticed by more people, surely he would stand out like a sore thumb? Even if he was 'real' the chances of someone like being the murderer would be highly unlikely. I've always had Hutchinson down as either a totally unreliable witness or a total outside bet as a suspect.

I know that Stephen Senise in his book (not read it) has Hutchinson down as JtR. Any others have him down as a possible candidate? Would be interest in hear the case for and against.

Tristan

[DJA]

There was no George Hutchinson.

He was a fictional device created in order to point the finger at the blinged caricatured Jew, who was also a fictional device.

[Abby Normal]

Re Abby Normal post #13

Hi Abby somehow I dont think it is the same chap but I could be wrong, I got an impression that he maybe worked at dock labouring after but could be wrong. I just thought I might find all the GH's I can that have a connection and post them up. I would hope someone might see something I cant. Starting on another George soon. I might unintentionally be repeating old research of others, apologies if I am. ...

thanks Paddy

[Abby Normal]

I guess the press were in on the fake George Hutchinson conspiracy too. good grief

[Abby Normal]

I often imagine that the most likely explanation for George Hutchinson was that he felt like he had to clear his name as he had been identified as being in the area at the time of the murder. In order to make his story more credible he either makes up or embellishes the character he saw, I just cant imagine a person like Astrakhan man wandering about the east end would not have been noticed by more people, surely he would stand out like a sore thumb? Even if he was 'real' the chances of someone like being the murderer would be highly unlikely. I've always had Hutchinson down as either a totally unreliable witness or a total outside bet as a suspect.

I know that Stephen Senise in his book (not read it) has Hutchinson down as JtR. Any others have him down as a possible candidate? Would be interest in hear the case for and against.

Tristan

Hi Los
Yes many have hutch down as a viable suspect-me included. he was involved in stalking behaviour with Kelly that night (corroberated by sara Lewis's waiting watching man), was around at the time of her death and with no alibi, changed his story from the police and press, fits the general witness descriptions of the ripper, and as you say-comes up with an implausable (and overly detailed)character in Aman as a suspect. he is also the only other source of evidence, with his Jewish suspect, in the case other than the GSG that implicates a jew. He waits until the inquest is over to come forward and is also quickly dropped as a viable witness by the police-possibly impinging on his credibility and truthfulness.

sanity check-Hutch was real, Aman was not.

Stephen Sinese book is excellent and names Aussie George as a viable suspect. However, I believe since he has found evidence that Aussie George was probably at sea at the times of the ripper murders.

[Fisherman]

Hi Los
Yes many have hutch down as a viable suspect-me included. he was involved in stalking behaviour with Kelly that night (corroberated by sara Lewis's waiting watching man), was around at the time of her death and with no alibi ...

Well, Abby! I know you are keen on Hutchinson, but let´s have a look at what you are saying here.

You elevate Hutchinson´s own admission that he stood outside Kellys home, waiting for Aman to come out to a "stalking behavior". I find that a tad harsh - surely, anybody who waits outside somebody´s lodgings while they are engaged in other businesses, with the hope of being able to get into contact with that somebody afterwards is not necessarily a stalker!

You say that Hutchinsons presence in the street is corroborated by Lewis, but that is not true, is it? It is not as if she identified him, and therefore all we can say is that Lewis claimed to see A man - not THE man - outside Miller´s Court at the relevant time. No corroboration is therefore in place, only an uncorroborated claim on behalf of Lewis to have seen a man outside the court.

Moreover, why would the police need any corroboration at all, given the fact that Hutchinson himself actively sought out the police and told them that he DID stand outside Millers Court at the relevant time?

You say that he has no alibi, but how do we know that? How is that established? Exactly: because Hutchinson himself said that he was there and that the streets were largely empty at the time!

Since he said he was there, and since Lewis said that she saw a man standing outside Millers Court on that night, as she made her way into said court - why do you think the police lost the main part of their interest in him, and Aman along with it? And since Lewis would have passed right in front of him at a remove in time when he had his gaze fixed on the entrance to the court, why do you think that Hutchinson does not mention her presence in the street, while he freely speaks of a lodger passing and a PC being present some way away from the scene?

Why would not George Hutchinson clinch his testimony beyond any reasonable doubt by saying "There was this woman who passed me by and walked up the court"?

Many have had a go at these questions, but so far, noone has come up with a good answer. It has been along the lines of "maybe he did not want to make it too obvious". How convoluted is THAT "explanation"??

There is no corroboration for George Hutchinson having been in place at the time, I´m afraid. There never has been. There has been a set of circumstances that have led up to a very understandable - but totally unsafe - establishing of a "fact", the way Ripperology sometimes do for no good reason at all.

I´m glad to see that "Aussie George" now seems to be out of the equation, and I will try my very best not to say "told you so!"

[Losmandris]

Hi Los
Yes many have hutch down as a viable suspect-me included. he was involved in stalking behaviour with Kelly that night (corroberated by sara Lewis's waiting watching man), was around at the time of her death and with no alibi, changed his story from the police and press, fits the general witness descriptions of the ripper, and as you say-comes up with an implausable (and overly detailed)character in Aman as a suspect. he is also the only other source of evidence, with his Jewish suspect, in the case other than the GSG that implicates a jew. He waits until the inquest is over to come forward and is also quickly dropped as a viable witness by the police-possibly impinging on his credibility and truthfulness.

sanity check-Hutch was real, Aman was not.

Stephen Sinese book is excellent and names Aussie George as a viable suspect. However, I believe since he has found evidence that Aussie George was probably at sea at the times of the ripper murders.

I am inclined to agree. Very well put. Thanks Abby.

I am getting a bit tired of the more outlandish that are appearing on here time and time again at the moment.

Tristan

[Abby Normal]

Well, Abby! I know you are keen on Hutchinson, but let´s have a look at what you are saying here.

You elevate Hutchinson´s own admission that he stood outside Kellys home, waiting for Aman to come out to a "stalking behavior". I find that a tad harsh - surely, anybody who waits outside somebody´s lodgings while they are engaged in other businesses, with the hope of being able to get into contact with that somebody afterwards is not necessarily a stalker!

You say that Hutchinsons presence in the street is corroborated by Lewis, but that is not true, is it? It is not as if she identified him, and therefore all we can say is that Lewis claimed to see A man - not THE man - outside Miller´s Court at the relevant time. No corroboration is therefore in place, only an uncorroborated claim on behalf of Lewis to have seen a man outside the court.

Moreover, why would the police need any corroboration at all, given the fact that Hutchinson himself actively sought out the police and told them that he DID stand outside Millers Court at the relevant time?

You say that he has no alibi, but how do we know that? How is that established? Exactly: because Hutchinson himself said that he was there and that the streets were largely empty at the time!

Since he said he was there, and since Lewis said that she saw a man standing outside Millers Court on that night, as she made her way into said court - why do you think the police lost the main part of their interest in him, and Aman along with it? And since Lewis would have passed right in front of him at a remove in time when he had his gaze fixed on the entrance to the court, why do you think that Hutchinson does not mention her presence in the street, while he freely speaks of a lodger passing and a PC being present some way away from the scene?

Why would not George Hutchinson clinch his testimony beyond any reasonable doubt by saying "There was this woman who passed me by and walked up the court"?

Many have had a go at these questions, but so far, noone has come up with a good answer. It has been along the lines of "maybe he did not want to make it too obvious". How convoluted is THAT "explanation"??

There is no corroboration for George Hutchinson having been in place at the time, I´m afraid. There never has been. There has been a set of circumstances that have led up to a very understandable - but totally unsafe - establishing of a "fact", the way Ripperology sometimes do for no good reason at all.

I´m glad to see that "Aussie George" now seems to be out of the equation, and I will try my very best not to say "told you so!"

And yet you just did! lol and grrrrrr..
hi Fish!
hope you are holding up well in these troubled times. As usual you make some good points, I just dont agree with them.
Im sure its not lost on you and many others the incredible similarities between Hutch and lech as "witnesses" (AKA as suspects) and as you know I consider lech a very viable suspect also. As a matter of fact ive bumped him up on the list to my first tier of most viable candidates along with Hutch and several others! Congrats!!!
Im sure ive made your day. ; )

Now im not going to rehash all the arguments con hutch now that weve gone over ad nauseum in the past but at least one thing that Im sure we can agree on is that George Hutchinson was indeed a real person lol. (although im aware you think he might have been out a night on his Mary sighting).

Hows the lech/torso book coming? looking forward to it!

[Abby Normal]

I am inclined to agree. Very well put. Thanks Abby.

I am getting a bit tired of the more outlandish that are appearing on here time and time again at the moment.

Tristan

Thanks and agree! it has been a tad ridiculous lately

[c.d.]

it has been a tad ridiculous lately

Just lately?

c.d.