Why did he lied?

[Wickerman]

You are correct but I don't agree or disagree with GH. I think he made it up. JMHO. As posted before no one else ever saw the AM and he doesn't fit the other descriptions. So you have to pick the witnesses you think are most believable. I don't believe GH, that's all. Good point though.

Hi John.
No-one else saw a man dressed like Astrachan, agreed.

Interestingly though, we don't even need Hutchinson's story.
Sarah Lewis saw the couple (ahead of Hutch) go up the passage, she also saw a man (Hutch) outside the passage in Dorset St., who eventually came to stand at Kelly's door.
Regardless what the male companion looked like, with or without the Astrachan coat, Lewis saw them in the passage heading towards room 13.

We don't need Hutchinson at all, especially if we discard the description he gave, what is left provides no value to the story.

Regards, Jon S.

[John Winsett]

You are correct but I don't agree or disagree with GH. I think he made it up. JMHO. As posted before no one else ever saw the AM and he doesn't fit the other descriptions. So you have to pick the witnesses you think are most believable. I don't believe GH, that's all. Good point though.

[Wickerman]

He lied most likely For the same reason people confess to murders they didn't do: Recognition, money to tell his story to the press, insanity, etc. I used to think he was the killer of MJK, now I think he's full of it.

Many accuse Hutch of lying, but there's no real consensus on exactly what he lied about and why he might have lied.
Its easy to just call him a liar..... its easy to call anyone a liar who you don't agree with.

Regards, Jon S.

[John Winsett]

He lied most likely For the same reason people confess to murders they didn't do: Recognition, money to tell his story to the press, insanity, etc. I used to think he was the killer of MJK, now I think he's full of it.

[Malcolm X]

whatever the case, i would like to see this info you have please Wickerman

[Malcolm X]

Hi Tom.
Yes, apparently Hutchinson did stand opposite Millers Court outside Crossingham's, and then moved across to stand outside the archway of the passage. Only then he takes a walk up the passage and stood at Kelly's door. Lewis saw him looking up/into the court (at the back of Kelly's room), for a moment.

Different news stories use different terminology. Some call the 'passage' the 'court', while others use 'passage' and refer to the open space behind Kelly's as the 'court', which technically is the correct use.

The passage leads to the Court, the passage is not the Court.

Here is what I think Lewis saw, a man (in red) standing outside Kelly's door looking into the dark court.



Regards, Jon S.

no not at all, all of this is new to all of us, she saw him standing on the other side of Dorset st staring up at the court...... nothing else

i'm a GH fanboy, but you're stretching the story too far, because this makes him look far too guilty, and unfortunately; her initial statement does not mention this at all..... and if this was to be interpreted like so, as you say back in 1888, then GH would have been far more of a suspect

do not go by what the tabloids say...... nowadays or even back in 1888, you can not believe anything they tell you and i would have thought that this was pretty obvious..... they have always told lies !!!!!

[Malcolm X]

Read this...
"Sarah Lewes, 24, Great Pearl-street, a laundress, said-I know a Mrs. Keiller, in Miller's-court, and went to see her on Friday morning at 2.30 o'clock by Spitalfields Church clock. In the doorway of the deceased's house I saw a man in a wideawake hat standing. He was not tall, but a stout-looking man. He was looking up the court as if he was waiting for some one. I also saw a man and a woman who had no hat on and were the worse for drink pass up the court."
Daily News, 13 Nov. 1888.

.Regards, Jon S.

this statement is wrong, she did not see anyone else at the same time she saw GH, ( in her first statement ) this has been added later.

i have never seen this before, or anyone else has ever mentioned this before, in all the years that we've studied MJK, IF THIS WAS SO, we would have been corrected years ago.....probably by Sudgen, or one of the founder Ripperologists here!

also i think you're wrong with regards to GH, you have no proof that he crossed the road and walked right up to the archway, he was seen standing on the other side of the road only.... you are quoting and manipulating information, that has never come to light before.

i now want to see all of what you have on a new thread and we'll go through it together

[harry]

Why couldn't Hutchinson have been the midnight companion?Coming back to kill,is little different from staying to kill,except for the interval of abscence.He didn't have to remain near Millers court.

[Wickerman]

Hi Wick,

So based on your research, you believe that Sarah Lewis walked up the passageway and into the court to go to her mother's house, and whilst in the court noticed a man in a wideawake hat standing in front of Kelly's door. And this occurred at 2:30am? What about the couple she saw 'pass up' the court? She seems to be suggesting this might have been Mary Kelly and a man, though she doesn't say what the couple's destination was, assuming that 'pass up' the court means to have entered it from the street, presumably to go into a room. Very interesting.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Rather than go off topic I'll explain how I see the story evolve on another thread, "Who did Sarah see?"

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Wick,

So based on your research, you believe that Sarah Lewis walked up the passageway and into the court to go to her mother's house, and whilst in the court noticed a man in a wideawake hat standing in front of Kelly's door. And this occurred at 2:30am? What about the couple she saw 'pass up' the court? She seems to be suggesting this might have been Mary Kelly and a man, though she doesn't say what the couple's destination was, assuming that 'pass up' the court means to have entered it from the street, presumably to go into a room. Very interesting.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Wickerman]

Incidentally, Wick, that 'Sarah Lewes' report you put here is new to me, and very intriguing. It has her man standing at Kelly's door and looking DOWN the court, instead of on the pavement looking UP the court.

Hi Tom.
Yes, apparently Hutchinson did stand opposite Millers Court outside Crossingham's, and then moved across to stand outside the archway of the passage. Only then he takes a walk up the passage and stood at Kelly's door. Lewis saw him looking up/into the court (at the back of Kelly's room), for a moment.

Different news stories use different terminology. Some call the 'passage' the 'court', while others use 'passage' and refer to the open space behind Kelly's as the 'court', which technically is the correct use.

The passage leads to the Court, the passage is not the Court.

Here is what I think Lewis saw, a man (in red) standing outside Kelly's door looking into the dark court.



Regards, Jon S.

[Tom_Wescott]

If you care to compare the Official Eddowes Inquest record with Newspaper coverage of the same witness statements you will see that the Official record does not include everything that was said.

This is a fact Those records are in no way a transcription of the inquest, but are signed statements. Many newspapers have to be compared in each case to get a full picture of what actually transpired at the inquests. Second to this, and far less reliable, are the press interviews with various witnesses.

Incidentally, Wick, that 'Sarah Lewes' report you put here is new to me, and very intriguing. It has her man standing at Kelly's door and looking DOWN the court, instead of on the pavement looking UP the court.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Wickerman]

Sarah Lewis saw GH, she did not see anyone else

Read this...
"Sarah Lewes, 24, Great Pearl-street, a laundress, said-I know a Mrs. Keiller, in Miller's-court, and went to see her on Friday morning at 2.30 o'clock by Spitalfields Church clock. In the doorway of the deceased's house I saw a man in a wideawake hat standing. He was not tall, but a stout-looking man. He was looking up the court as if he was waiting for some one. I also saw a man and a woman who had no hat on and were the worse for drink pass up the court."
Daily News, 13 Nov. 1888.

No confusion there Malcolm.
And I did not say GH was Blotchy.

If you care to compare the Official Eddowes Inquest record with Newspaper coverage of the same witness statements you will see that the Official record does not include everything that was said.
We need to use all the News sources along with the Official record to create a complete picture of what was said at the inquest. Likewise then this is what we must do with the Kelly inquest.
The above quote is from the inquest report from the Daily News, other papers give slightly different versions, which is to be expected.

the Kennedy woman sees what she thinks is MJK and a smart man after 3am.

Kennedy had the time wrong, like so many other witnesses.

Regards, Jon S.

[Malcolm X]

Not sure what you mean Malcolm, I didn't say the first one refers to Blotchy.
All four concern Hutchinson.
Both points made by Hutchinson are confirmed by Sarah Lewis and are timed between 2:30am - 3:00am.

Regards, Jon S.

no they are not, he does not look close enough in description to LA DE DA and was seen after 3am, LA DE DA vanished inside at about 2.05am

Sarah Lewis saw GH, she did not see anyone else

MARY ANN COX sees blotchy face and Kelly, not Sarah lewis and this is much ealier on

the Kennedy woman sees what she thinks is MJK and a smart man after 3am.

you're confusing S.Lewis with Mary Cox, finally, there is absolutely no way that GH can be Blotchy Face, it's way too risky to be seen going in and then hanging around outside later on

[lynn cates]

right

Hello Tom. I think that's right. Good observation.

Cheers.
LC