George William Topping Hutchinson Records

[The Rookie Detective]

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Post #161 on this same thread.

This is his signature from the marriage certificate of George William Topping Hutchinson...




To me, this signature looks very similar to the top signature from the witness statement...

I think this may be the same man


Another interesting point is this...

The word 'Topping' has a double 'P'... and this double 'P' looks very similar to the double 'P' from the alleged JTR correspondence where he signs 'Jack the Ri'PP'er.'


Have a look at the JTR ripper signature and compare it to the name Topper from the marriage certificate. They're not identical but certainly very similar.


Could this be the correct George Hutchinson and if so, could he have been the author of the alleged ripper letters?

If so, it doesn't make him the ripper, but certainly a fantasist.

Could the reason why the witness George Hutchinson has been so hard to find, is because he just doesn't fit with all our expectations?

George William Topping Hutchinson was living in Mile End Road when he got married in 1898. So at least we know this George Hutchinson was in the East End (even though it's a decade later)

I think George William Topping Hutchinson is the same man as our witness George Hutchinson.

Topping was his mother's maiden name and he only used it on his marriage certficate.

What's interesting is that his mother Jane Hutchison (nee Topping) died when George was young.

His father was also called George Hutchinson and was also a plumber, as was his father.


If George William Topper Hutchinson is the same man, then could the name 'Topper' be more significant in terms of the ripper letters? I have always wondered why he signed it 'Jack the Ripper,' and have always believed that there was a clue there somewhere. Could the double 'P' be the clue?

'Topper' and 'Ripper'

If someone who is more tech-savvy than me is able to upload a picture of JTR signature 'Jack the Ripper' and display it next to the name 'Topper' from George Hutchinson's marriage certificate, then we can all compare what I am referring to.


Of course, if the signature from his marriage certificate doesn't match the signatures from the witness statements, then he his a red herring.

But i believe that we have found the right man based on those signature comparisons.


Thought please?

[Fleetwood Mac]

I don't know. Quite a bit of the 1891 census is virtually unreadable.

Maybe so. The signatures being compared aren't bad though.

That G is a problem I reckon.

[Scott Nelson]

Back in the day, people wrote beautifully. Reading, writing and arithmetic were the order of the day. And so, writing was of far more importance and they wrote according to a broad standard.

I don't know. Quite a bit of the 1891 census is virtually unreadable.

[Fleetwood Mac]

I am piecing together records relating to Toppy to see how plausible it is that he could have been a groom-come-labourer in the Victoria

The signatures alone suggest to me that GWTH was not the George Hutchinson who signed the witness statement.

Back in the day, people wrote beautifully. Reading, writing and arithmetic were the order of the day. And so, writing was of far more importance and they wrote according to a broad standard. These days, our writing isn't deemed important and so we just scrawl as we see fit.

There are similarities but you would expect that in an age when writing was of more importance and written according to a broad standard.

But, the clue is in the G. The comparison shows a distinct departure. Look at your own signatures and how often is that first letter so clearly different.

[MrBarnett]

I’ve created a thread on JTRForums for the census details. You get longer to amend posts over there. If no glaring errors are pointed out, I’ll put the details on a suitable thread on here too.

In the meantime…

https://www.jtrforums.com/forum/pers...hinson-in-1921

[rjpalmer]

A more detailed examination of his various signatures can be found here by Sam Flynn, Post #38, and Paddy's follow-up, #40.

Identifying Hutchinson - Casebook: Jack the Ripper Forums

[rjpalmer]

Many thanks, Gary. That was quick work.

Here are the signatures from George Hutchinson's witness statement, as gathered together by Gary Wroe on another thread.

For those that might not recall, a document examiner suggested that "Toppy" wasn't the same George Hutchinson, but others were convinced that she had been given a document that was actually signed by a registrar and not by George William Topping himself.





Post #161 on this same thread.

[MrBarnett]

Acting on a suggestion by RJ Palmer, I looked up Toppy on the 1921 census.

Here’s his signature. I’ll transcribe the census details and post them here and on the forums later.

[Lechmere]

I have checked the electoral registers for Southwark West for every year between 1895 and 1904.
In 1905 Toppy is on the electoral register at 44 Grove Road, Mile End Old Town.
Both 10 Barbel Street and 80 Tower Street (where Toppy was listed in the 1901 census) are in Southwark West.

It is clear that he was living at either address at least from 1898 to 1901. This confirms my suspicion about Toppy having a casual attitude towards form filling.
There is nothing at all for Toppy... except this one entry...

It is for 1902.
He was living as a lodger at 80 Tower Street.
His rent was 6s 6d. per week which is just over 11d. per day.
The Toppy family was living in two unfurnished rooms on the first floor (they would have provided their own furniture).
The landlord, Charles Turner, lived in the remainder of the dwelling and was also on the electoral register.
This wasn’t a common lodging house. The Toppy family were lodgers in someone else’s house.

[Lechmere]

I have checked the electoral register for Mile End Old Town and Toppy only appears under 44 Grove Road in 1905 and 1906. After this he either moved or neglected to put himself down.

In the 1911 census his children are listed as being born as follows:

George William in 1898, Westminster. It would seem that they were living at Barbel Street which is in Southwark, but just off Westminster Bridge Road. Most people don’t know the intricacies of local government nor of ecclesiastical parish boundaries so perhaps he assumed it was in Westminster.

Albert Thomas in 1900, Westminster. Again they were actually living in Barbel Street in Southwark.

Florence Clara Jane in 1903, Mile End. This tallies.

Leonard in 1906, Bethnal Green. Where in Bethnal Green I have no idea, but this explains why they aren’t listed at Grove Road any more.

William in 1907, Stratford. This can be taken to imply that they weren’t at Tuscan Street in 1906, but had merely neglected to go onto the electoral register until 1910 They seem to have gone to Bethnal Green in 1906, then Stratford in 1907 and then back to Bethnal Green by 1910. I think this may be William Percy Hutchinson who was born on 15th November 1907 and who was the father of two children killed in the Bethnal Green Tube Disaster, and who himself died in December 1991 in Hackney.

Clara Adelaide in 1909, Bethnal Green. I suspect she was born soon after they moved into Tuscan Street. She appeared on the electoral register at Tuscan Street in 1931, soon after her 21st birthday.

Two and possibly three children followed the 1911 census.
Mary – born before 1915. I base this on her appearance on the electoral register in 1936.
Reginald Ernest – born 20th March 1916 and died January 1997. The familiar ‘Reg’.
David Knott has said there was another younger son born after Reg, who may still be alive.

[Lechmere]

I tracked down the baptismal records for two of Toppy’s children (I have already reproduced the baptismal record for his eldest son George).

His second child was called Albert Thomas Hutchinson.
He was baptised on 31st January 1900 in St Paul’s Church, Southwark – which was in Newington, a mile or so south of Barbel Street, which seems slightly strange as it was a different parish and different Registration District to where they lived.
They were living at 10 Barbel Street, the same address that they were listed at in April 1898 when their firstborn George was baptised.
Barbel Street it will be remembered was the worst street in that area of inner south London.

His third child was called Florence Clara Jane Hutchinson.
She was baptised on 22nd September 1903, but had been born on 28th August 1903.
Now they were living at 44 Grove Road and the baptism took place at the ‘family’ church – Holy Trinity on Morgan Street.
This document allowed me to find Toppy in the electoral register at 44 Grove Road. The slightly odd thing being that he doesn’t appear on the electoral register for that address until 1905.

[Malcolm X]

What I'm expecting, FM, is that at some point someone will notice the similitude of the Toppy signatures and then compare this to the lack of consistency in the three Hutchinson signatures - one of which is even signed 'Geo Hutchinson'.

That would be a start, at least.

there is something seriously wrong with the statement signatures for sure, all 3 of them could indeed have been signed by the police.

JTR has no reason not to sign them, because for me it's dead easy to alter my sig too, i write sloping steeply, but i can easily change this to vertical, but if i do so; all 3 sigs will still look the same.
these dont, reasons for variations could be due to writing on unevan surface, nervs, freezing cold fingers, or creased paper.

all the rest of this GH stuff is of little use to us, unless of course you did up something really dodgy about him

[Sally]

Sally,

As far as I can tell, Lechmere has been merely posting George Hutchinson records here for everyone to see with a bit of commentary thrown in. There is no wild speculation about anything and I think that speaks volumes for the information speaking for itself. You seem to have some issues with this and I can't see why. Unless you explain yourself, I have a tendency to think you're just stirring the pot with no objective other than to do so.

Mike

Mike, Not at all. I have my reasons, but as those are not directly concerned with Toppy, and who he was or wasn't - which doesn't much interest me to be frank - this is not the place for them. I have no intention either of derailing the thread, or of indulging in childish squabble. There are ways to address my own concerns, which I will pursue. For the time being, I have nothing further to add.

[Lechmere]

Here the basic registration entry for Toppy’s death in the first quarter of 1938.
He died in Edmonton for some reason.
Toppy didn’t appear on the 1938 electoral register which slightly surprises me as I would have expected it to be compiled at the end of 1937. Unless he was in an old people’s home or hospital in Edmonton for a short while before his death perhaps.
The only other point of interest is that he is listed as George W. T. Hutchinson – so this is one of the few instances where the name Topping was applied to him. Although of course he didn’t fill out the form himself.

[The Good Michael]

Lechmere. No you don't, obviously. But sure, thanks for your view. I'll bear it in mind.

Sally,

As far as I can tell, Lechmere has been merely posting George Hutchinson records here for everyone to see with a bit of commentary thrown in. There is no wild speculation about anything and I think that speaks volumes for the information speaking for itself. You seem to have some issues with this and I can't see why. Unless you explain yourself, I have a tendency to think you're just stirring the pot with no objective other than to do so.

Mike