Innocent, By George!

[Lechmere]

Watch it Madame de la Retro…
I have an inkling that many ‘Ripperologists’ have a sideline pash for hauntings, the occult and other things that go bump in the night (well, not all things that go bump in the night, perhaps). You may just have alienated a significant proportion of your fellow Hutchinsonites.

On another note, Faircluff’s private opinions do not really have much bearing on Reg’s veracity.

And DVV – the Toppy pic is included in various non-ripperologistical genealogical sites relating to that family. For it to be a recent forgery then many members of that family would be implicated.
Have they sold the picture or attempted to make money out of it?
I would suggest that if that were their angle then they would be supporting the claims of the Hutchinsonites as that would make the picture worth a few more bob than being he picture of a witness.
So why would they conjure up a fake Toppy picture? What possible motive would they have?
If Toppy is Kelly’s Hutchinson I can see how that man in younger days may have had a military appearance but doubt that he was stout – but then again I don’t think that Lewis’s wideawake man was Hutchinsion any way and neither did anyone else in 1888.
Of course if Toppy was Kelly’s Hutchinson then he most certainly wasn’t either of those Flem(m)ings.

[richardnunweek]

Hello Dvv,
Heaven forbid, I did not suggest that locating the correct edition of the Radio times was easy, It is well known that myself, and two members of my family, endured about a 100 degrees of heat at the Brighton University a few years ago, but was unsuccessful, owing to searching only the front pages of the relevant years.[ rear pages I now know].
I am not the best equipped for research, but many are, and I only suggested that for those inclined , they may enjoy the search.
Regards Richard.

[richardnunweek]

Hi Lechmere,
An application of logic on your part,it is indeed absolutely ridiculous to claim that the picture produced was not Topping , as you correctly point out, it would show a widespread conspiracy of huge magnitudes, involving the whole of the Hutchinson family, and for what to remain silent?
Please lets apply logic.
What would Topping gain by taking over the identity of a man of the same surname?
fame no.
Riches no
A pint or two ..possibly, but a lot of research for something so trifle.
What would the Hutchinson family gain by placing a photograph of a non family member into ancestry.?
TV interviews ..No
lucrative offers..no
absolutely nothing.
So well said Lechmere,
Regards Richard.

[DVV]

And DVV – the Toppy pic is included in various non-ripperologistical genealogical sites relating to that family. For it to be a recent forgery then many members of that family would be implicated.

I simply don't know, and you don't know either. To my eyes, it doesn't look a 20s pic, and to my knowledge, any material that has been published first by Fairclough is potentially as dubious as his various opinions and theories. As recalled by Stephen Thomas, there was an Abberline diary in the Ripper and the Royals. If he is able to do that....
For the record, I've never said it wasn't Toppy. I just suspect some forgery, not that I am paranoid, but because Fairclough is Fairclough.

[DVV]

Lechmere, you've certainly noticed that several people share my impression regarding the pic and its date : and neither Stephen Thomas nor Sam Flynn are Hutch-biased, are they ?

Moreover, it can be Toppy, who cares ? that would not make him the witness. Just understand it doesn't look a 20s pic to some people, Hutch or not Hutch.

By the way and out of curiosity, if you forget Toppy and the whole story, would you have believed it's a 20s pic ?

[Malcolm X]

[I."She had two false teeth which projected very much from the lips."
Morning Advertiser, 12 Nov.

Regards,...

oh dear, that aint too pretty

[DVV]

As for believing every 'word' the Hutchinson's say ..I refute this.
Regards Richard.

Well, Richard, you are constantly praising Toppy as an excellent chap who had tried his best to help the police whereas he did not come forward in due time, made a wonderful joke with the alledged Sunday sighting, described the suspect as a Jewish supervillain and was quickly considered a time waster.

[Malcolm X]

Greg -I don't know if this is the same Melvyn Fairclough, but someone by that name participates in a site called 'Mysterious Britain', devoted to
Hauntings, the Occult, Cryptozoology (aquatic monsters and big cats) and UFOs amongst other things. I think that it is very
likely to be the same man (if so, he's even more credulous than even I
first thought).

I'm afraid that Reg is beginning to look as credible as Nessie to me..

At the end of an article devoted to Radcliffe Tower, he has posted a comment beginning "....Fifty years ago I was in the same class at school as the boy whose father farmed the land upon which Radcliffe Tower stands.." So he would probably be in his 60s.

yes, Arthur c Clark was a bit like this too, his book the ``the mysteries of the unexplained`` is full of rubbish like this

but also; some of his stuff is true, it's a very odd world.

you do realise that this photo, Toppy or not, has no bearing on JTR at all, simply because if it's Toppy, you still have no proof that he is the GH that we're after.... none !

this arguement is going around in circles, but to me the whole of this Toppy fiasco is looking like a fraud, it's guilt by association

[Malcolm X]

you only have to read the research that Lechmere did, to realise that Toppy wasn't an excellent chap like you think he was, he seemed quite dodgy to me, but of course; he's not the right person to be JTR..... YET.

UNFORTUNATELY, Lechmere realised that he was painting a bad picture of Toppy, thus he stopped his research

but i dont think it matters, because my guess is that GH is someone else, someone almost definitely from Romford.

i need to trace his original statement, the one full of his crossed out mistakes, because it's this that might reveal more....not so much what he said, i need to talk to Ben

again i say, if GH was JTR, he would have left clues in his statement, he spent a few days with the police, but none of this works unless he left a massive clue in his statement that we haven't noticed yet... because he's going to the police because he's tormenting them and taking the Mickey..... for sure, that Statement is bias, fully loaded and quite cryptic too.

because as JTR he has absolutely no need to go to the police, so why did he, there can only be one reason!.... he went to play mind games with them, and this is starting to show itself with the Ghoulston st Graffiti.... unfortunately, he has to take care that his clues aren't too easy to suss out or he's had it, so these will be heavily disguised and probably only mean something to him .

but whether i think GH is deffo JTR is another really hard question to answer.... all i'm saying is, if GH is him !

if not, he's telling the truth and he saw JTR, this brings us nicely back to Arthur C Clark, because his book is full of stuff like this !

[Malcolm X]

that central portrait is MJK, which does not do her any justice.

1.... she looks stout as described !
2....there was not enough left of her face to draw, but any Witness that knew her well, could easily help the artist to capture her accurately..... and there were many that knew her.
3..... she has a good head of hair

but, the proportions of the face are wrong, the nose is too long, mouth too close to it, chin wrong, that picture is no good !

[GregBaron]

Credulous Cluff...

Hi everybody,

Just caught up on the thread. Ruby, I will check your correspondence here shortly. I must say I agree with you that if "Cluff" is into that occult nonsense he also loses my faith.

I'm sure it's tedious and a time gobbler but someone should try to verify Richard's radio program. I don't know him (Richard) but can't imagine him making this up just to be contrary...Of course his memory could fail him as mine often does...

I think the Hutch photo looks like one of those FotoMat booths people went into in the 70's for self aggrandizement and silliness....

I suppose if stout Wideawake isn't Hutch then he's the murderer of MJK. If he is then well hmmm....

I'm not confident Mr. Fairclough will give us anything worthwhile but it's worth the old college try I suppose....


Greg

[Rubyretro]

UNFORTUNATELY, Lechmere realised that he was painting a bad picture of Toppy, thus he stopped his research

You've hit the nail on the head there, Malcolm....Lechmere obviously began to get frightened....

[Malcolm X]

Hi everybody,

Just caught up on the thread. Ruby, I will check your correspondence here shortly. I must say I agree with you that if "Cluff" is into that occult nonsense he also loses my faith.

I'm sure it's tedious and a time gobbler but someone should try to verify Richard's radio program. I don't know him (Richard) but can't imagine him making this up just to be contrary...Of course his memory could fail him as mine often does...

I think the Hutch photo looks like one of those FotoMat booths people went into in the 70's for self aggrandizement and silliness....

I suppose if stout Wideawake isn't Hutch then he's the murderer of MJK. If he is then well hmmm....

I'm not confident Mr. Fairclough will give us anything worthwhile but it's worth the old college try I suppose....


Greg

hang around yes, he has a curtain behind him, it looks like a Photo-Me photo booth from Waterloo Station

[Lechmere]

Ho Ho Ho
I haven't had the time or opportunity to tidy up the few loose ends that's all.
I think Toppy was a bit of a chancer - not Mr Prim and Proper, which fits with him being an unreliable witness on the make which is what I think Hutchinson was.

[Malcolm X]

You've hit the nail on the head there, Malcolm....Lechmere obviously began to get frightened....

yes because he stopped as soon as i thanked him for the information, he was actually trying to prove that he was innocent, but making him look guilty instead ``keep going and you've caught JTR ``..... but he suddenly stopped, BEN and i laughed our bollocks off