Innocent, By George!

[Malcolm X]

Hi Malcolm

I wouldn't say he was an old drunk nor that it wasn't Toppy for sure, but I have to agree with you : it really doesn't look a 20s pic, at least to my eyes, and if more recent, then it cannot be Toppy.

I have an idea that this pic could be easier to date (even approximately) than the signatures to be compared.

Some will probably insist that a proven fake wouldn't prove Toppy was not the man, but at the same time, this may help them realize that all they believe concerning Toppy has the same (and dubious) provenance.

joking aside, this photo is definitely not from the 20s, for sure.

it has totally the wrong style and feel about it, this photo also reflects a fairly scruffy individual ( that's why i joked)....lower class, this and i repeat myself yet again, is from the 50s to 70s, he looks like he's from just after WW2 and an Irish road digger etc..... he also has quite an honest looking face and quite tough too, his eyes are fixated... a bit like a Head Gardener, Brickie etc, you know what i mean........ he's a labourer of some kind.

if it's a fake makes no difference at all to JTR, because this man is actually quite well built for his age, his jaw is quite wide and powerful, so he does actually resemble the description.... it's the age of the photo that's wrong.

Albert Fish is slim in that photo and was slim as a young man too, but this photo of GH has a heavier built face and back in his 20s could easily be either medium to heavy built..... he has no double chin, so he was probably quite muscular rather than fat, because his expression reflects a fit person

he looks about 60....maybe older, and unfortunately by then, you aint half the man you once were, so dont let that fool you.

[DVV]

Hi Ruby

Yes, I'm with you thus far, Richard..

Problem is that Richard accepts anything coming from this Hutchinson family, God knows why.

But forget Toppy and show the pic to people. Who will say "Oh, this definitely looks as if taken in the 20s !" ?
Very few, if any, I'm afraid.

Then why are you so confident ? How come that you trust Fairclough that much ?

Personally I take anything produced by the man who discovered (yes, yes) the Abberline diary with tons of salt.

[lynn cates]

options

Hello Ruby. I agree that there are 2 quite viable possibilities.

1. Richard's radio programme. Hopefully, I will have an answer soon. How? BBC "genome project"--this is a digitised listing of all the "Radio Times" programmes. Due out this year.

2. Fairclough may have heard of a Toppy family legend.

Obviously, 1 is MUCH more favourable for Toppy = Hutch. Perhaps this is the year we find out?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Ask, and ye sahll receive.

Hello David.

"Reg never said what his father was doing in Whitehapel ; never said anything about his acquaintance with Kelly ; never explained why he didn't come forward earlier.

And these blanks do tell a lot."

And these are precisely some of the questions that he must be asked.

Cheers.
LC

[Malcolm X]

Hi Guys,
With respect,there is a awful lot of rubbish being voiced here.
The Topping picture is authentic, it was always present in Reg Hutchinson's home[ Ivor Edward's ] it is a genuine picture of his father, all this discussion on ageing the photo is silly , we have a genuine late 20s/early 30s picture of a man early sixties, no mystery there...
In our desperate plight to trace the Ripper, we tend to focus on unrealistic suspects , and Hutchinson is one of them, he was simply a witness that at least tried to assist the police, in catching the man that he believed[ and the police] killed Mary Kelly.
In other words quote.. Reg's own words.
He said he knew one of the victims, and had to give the police a statement, he was paid one hundred shillings, but never said from who, but it was his greatest regret , that it came to nothing.[ radio broadcast][
What is wrong, or mysterious, about a 22 year old male , knowing a 24 year old female, especially a young lady that was quite attractive?
Regards Richard.

where is the proof that this photo is from his house..... PROOF PLEASE.

no sorry, this is the trouble with JTR, we need proof only, this photo can quite easily be a load of rubbish.

you say Ivor Edwards, he lived on the ISLE OF WIGHT of D'ONSTON fame, i think you might have made a mistake by saying that he's Reg.... i think we'd better leave Ivor out of this, because he supposedly interviewed Reg and he told me that he didn't believe him, but this is cancelled out by the fact that Ivor Edwards had a very dodgy past life... so i'm not sure that he can be trusted, enough said.

your radio report ! you keep mentioning this and with all due respect, i see no proof and there would be.

all this crap over the photo is a distraction, because the real question should be, do the signatures match?

[DVV]

Hello David.

"Reg never said what his father was doing in Whitehapel ; never said anything about his acquaintance with Kelly ; never explained why he didn't come forward earlier.

And these blanks do tell a lot."

And these are precisely some of the questions that he must be asked.

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn, asking these questions is already answering them, I believe.
But you can add that Reg never explained the trip to Romford, never alluded to this terrible night spent walking in the cold, nor to the horrible vision of Kelly on Monday12.
If the witness, quite a strange one.

[DVV]

Richard, Malcolm, more about Reg and Ivor, please.

[DVV]

Or was it Blake Edwards of Pink Panther fame ?

[Malcolm X]

Hello Ruby. I agree that there are 2 quite viable possibilities.

1. Richard's radio programme. Hopefully, I will have an answer soon. How? BBC "genome project"--this is a digitised listing of all the "Radio Times" programmes. Due out this year.

2. Fairclough may have heard of a Toppy family legend.

Obviously, 1 is MUCH more favourable for Toppy = Hutch. Perhaps this is the year we find out?

Cheers.
LC

no, because any existing family member saying that Toppy was the JTR eyewitness, could still be a lie, evidence is always needed.

but what family members might have are examples of his signatures, but i doubt it and they definitely wont have his work history.

put it this way, we have loads of photos of our family back then, but we know little about them, only rumours and this means nothing!..... it's simply too long ago.

can Toppy be linked to GH ? not a hope in hell, because even the signatures are only 50:50.

you have to think of this like you're in court, a defence lawyer and Toppy as GH is rumours and hearsay only.

Abberline interviewed someone called GH, and this person could be anybody, simply because we have no description of him and we dont even know his age for sure, do we.......... we're only going by Toppy's age and this is fooling all of you..... NOW COMEON what do we know about this GH.

THINK NOW...... military in appearence and stout is all we have, forget the clothing..

is GH

1...... FOREIGN LOOKING
2......like Joe Barnett
3......like Pipeman

now i'm sorry to say this, but we dont know what GH looks like do we !!!!

TOPPY as GH came about after the original witnesses to the events were all dead, or either way too old to recollect or trace, yet again this is odd.

prove me wrong .... what did GH look like ?

[Malcolm X]

Richard, Malcolm, more about Reg and Ivor, please.

years ago i was on IVOR EDWARDS forum.... he of D'ONSTON fame, he was an ex-convict, been locked up a few times.

he was fairly knowledgeable, he was supposedly the one that interviewed REG, he told me that he didn't believe him...... BEN knows about this too.

i liked Ivor but i'm not sure if this was true, he had a lot of knowledge about Occult murders, and MJK is typical of human sacrafices from Africa/ South America/ tropical areas etc, but of course; this could be coincidence only.

this is where i think D' Onston comes into the equation, because both him and Ivor recognise these Occult Style murders from around the world, due to their research.

but anybody could be into the occult, so this helps us little right now

[Rubyretro]

[

prove me wrong .... what did GH look like ?

Well, I for one have have faith in that newspaper sketch (if someone could post it ?).

All the other newspaper sketches which we can compare to a photograph are remarkably good likenesses -I can't see why this one wouldn't be.

[lynn cates]

keeping on

Hello David. I don't think anyone considers Hutch an ideal witness, but how many of those do we have?

Let's continue to gather data, shall we?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

points

Hello Malcolm. No, outside a sketch we have no idea about GH--nor Abberline, for that matter.

Act as if in a court? Well, there would be no posting--at all. Neither side has aught but conjecture.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Liz

Hello Ruby. Hmm, what about that really awful sketch of Liz?

Cheers.
LC

[Malcolm X]

[



Well, I for one have have faith in that newspaper sketch (if someone could post it ?).

All the other newspaper sketches which we can compare to a photograph are remarkably good likenesses -I can't see why this one wouldn't be.

I know that sketch, it's useless, just like the poster sketch of MJK.... you can see it's not good artwork, but some are so i partially agree with you.

yes, i was right, we dont know what GH looks like, this blows everything out of the water, we dont even know his age.

in our mind's eye we are basing GH on Toppy, this is really screwing us up..... GH could either be a friend of a similar age, or an older man that's a client......i.e like the A.Chapman sighting, foreign looking !!!!!!! visiting friends, out drinking, out walking, searching for work, this could easily be someone whose 30 to 40.

sorry, but it could be !