Innocent, By George!

[Garry Wroe]

Hi Garry, did Leander say something regarding a possible (or not) Badham signature ?

No, Dave. Mr Leander was presented with only one of the three Hutchinson statement signatures and was asked to compare this with a number of Toppy examples. He was given no information relating to Badham, nor any indication of the existence of a further two Hutchinson signatures. This is a pity. Not only might we have benefited from the professional (if informal) examination of the unseen signatures, we might also have gained an insight as to why Hutchinson provided three stylistically different signatures in a single sitting. But there you go.

[DVV]

Thanks Garry, yes that is it. I was re-reading the opening post of your Leander thread and indeed Leander only got a scan of the page 3 signature. Too bad Fish had no time to scan the others.

[Abby Normal]

I understand the importance of the research and trying to find out as much as possible who "Hutch" was, but even if we were able to absolutely determine that "Toppy" was our Hutch, could someone please explain to me how Toppy( as Hutch) is somehow less of a viable candidate for JtR than "unknown" or non-Toppy Hutch??

[lynn cates]

profile

Hello Abby. I have asked that same question and so I will convey the reply I received.

It is generally thought by the Hutch camp that Toppy was a decent hard working family man and rather sedate.

I think they are looking for someone who fits the FBI profile for serial killers--for whatever reason.

Cheers.
LC

[Lechmere]

I think the problem is also that the police would have been able to 'check out' Toppy. He doesn't make a likely JtR -he can hardly have know Kelly for any length of time - that must have been a lie for example.

[Abby Normal]

Hello Abby. I have asked that same question and so I will convey the reply I received.

It is generally thought by the Hutch camp that Toppy was a decent hard working family man and rather sedate.

I think they are looking for someone who fits the FBI profile for serial killers--for whatever reason.

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn
Thanks for the reply. Many a serial killer has appeared to have a normal family life and seem to be sedate. One could argue that Toppy Hutch would more likely to be a viable candidate for JtR as he is more of an average Joe non descript type, and on top of that- is why he would be able to fool his victims that he was NOT JtR at the height of the Ripper scare.

IMHO unknown Hutch or Toppy Hutch makes no difference as to there viability as a suspect.

[DVV]

I understand the importance of the research and trying to find out as much as possible who "Hutch" was, but even if we were able to absolutely determine that "Toppy" was our Hutch, could someone please explain to me how Toppy( as Hutch) is somehow less of a viable candidate for JtR than "unknown" or non-Toppy Hutch??

Hi Abby,

contrary to what Lynn said, the problem doesn't concern the sole "Hutch camp".

We all feel that a good little plumber would have come forward in due time, and that a "down-to-earth" witness wouldn't have uttered the name of Churchill.
We all observe Reg's story appeared in a highly fanciful book and nowhere else.
And none of us has yet traced Toppy in Whitechapel 1888.

[DVV]

I think they are looking for someone who fits the FBI profile for serial killers--for whatever reason.
LC

No, they are looking for the man who signed his police statement "George Hutchinson", that's all.

Has this man been identified ?
Not yet, to my knowledge. So "they" are still looking for him and this has very little to do with the FBI.

By the way, at the time of the big thread, most of Hutch freaks have stated that Toppy or not, it would not affect Hutch candidacy.

This is no more my opinion, though.

[jason_c]

Hi Lynn
Thanks for the reply. Many a serial killer has appeared to have a normal family life and seem to be sedate. One could argue that Toppy Hutch would more likely to be a viable candidate for JtR as he is more of an average Joe non descript type, and on top of that- is why he would be able to fool his victims that he was NOT JtR at the height of the Ripper scare.

IMHO unknown Hutch or Toppy Hutch makes no difference as to there viability as a suspect.

No doubt serial killers come in many shapes and sizes. "Appearing" to have a normal family life and having an "actual" normal family life are not the same thing. As far as we can tell Toppy managed to put his murderous tendencies behind him without the aid of prescribed drugs, psychiatric treatment or visits to an asylum. He managed all this without his family becoming suspiscious of him for the remaining thirty years of his life.

Fooling a drunken victim for 5 minutes of small talk is far easier than keeping a lid on your demons for thirty years.

This does not exonerate Toppy but it should give his accusers serious pause for thought before pointing the finger at him.

[DVV]

This does not exonerate Toppy but it should give his accusers serious pause for thought before pointing the finger at him.

Hi Jason

nobody is pointing the finger at Toppy : those who believe he was the witness do not think he was the ripper.

[lynn cates]

Toppy

Hello David. I think it was Ben or Garry who indicated that to me.

If I supported Hutch, his being Toppy would be irrelevant to me--as you say.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Toppy equation

Hello Abby. As I just said to David, if I were a Hutch supporter, I would find the Toppy equation meaningless.

Cheers.
LC

[DVV]

Hello David. I think it was Ben or Garry who indicated that to me.

Cheers.
LC

Lynn, as you very well know, it means nothing since they (and I) don't think Toppy was the witness.

[lynn cates]

no spanner

Hello David. That is correct--they deny Toppy was Hutch. But I was curious about why the Toppy=Hutch equation was so important to deny.

Personally, I don't think that a particular spanner would be thrown into the Hutch works--Toppy or no.

Cheers.
LC

[Garry Wroe]

I think it was Ben or Garry who indicated that to me.

If it was me, Lynn, I don't recall it. I do, however, feel that many fail to grasp the underlying psychopathology of the Ripper-like killer. The raging malevolence which fuelled this man's crime's would have been an intrinsic part of his personality. He would have been prone to violent outbursts, particularly where women were concerned, probably suffered periods of deep depression, and was almost certainly sexually dysfunctional under 'normal' romantic circumstances. As far as I'm aware, Toppy enjoyed decades of marital stability, was apparently a good father as well as a consistent and conscientious worker. So Toppy wasn't Jack the Ripper. I also seriously doubt that he was Abberline's witness. In fact, I tend to think that the story passed down to Reg was no more than a fireside tale concocted to entertain the children on cold winter evenings. But if anyone has evidence to the contrary ...