Innocent, By George!

[lynn cates]

some points

Hello Greg.

"My main problem is with MJK. I think whoever killed her was a very sick individual."

So do I.

"I can’t see a copycat . . ."

Well, I don't think I'd call it that either. Which slaying was being copied?

" . . . hitman . . ."

Well, the Phoenix Park murders and Dr. Cronin were savagely attacked with, in the first case, surgical instruments, in the second, an ice axe.

" . . .or boyfriend . . ."

If you mean mere boyfriend, then I am with you here.

"Also, Eddowes and Kelly look very similar in situ."

Really? But Kate's thighs retained their flesh.

"One simply exponentially more intensified. This usually indicates the same killer. So if we have your JI killing C1 and C2 and another mutilating serial murderer killing C4 and C5, we then have two mutilating serial killers roaming a small enclave simultaneously. Incongruity."

But above you did not mind having more than one. So why an incongruity?

"To your point though, we almost definitely have multiple killers over the course of the 12 victims. Indeed Whitechapel was a very nasty place in that time period."

And here we agree.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Klosowski

Hello Abby. If age rules Toppy out, it would also rule out Klosowski. He was roughly the same age.

Cheers.
LC

[DVV]

Would not Toppy's age be more of a factor (22 at the time of the murders?) be more of a factor in ruling him out as the killer than his later family life?

Oh dear, what's that ?

he can't be the witness, so how could he be the killer ?

[DVV]

la question ne se pose pas

Hello Abby. If age rules Toppy out, it would also rule out Klosowski. He was roughly the same age.

Cheers.
LC

Oui, et alors ?

[GregBaron]

Points well taken...

Hi Lynn,

Thanks for the answers.

Well, the Phoenix Park murders and Dr. Cronin were savagely attacked with, in the first case, surgical instruments, in the second, an ice axe.

I think there's a difference between savagely attacked and eviscerated beyond recognition...

Really? But Kate's thighs retained their flesh.

No time for de-thighing methinks...

But above you did not mind having more than one. So why an incongruity?

Above where? 12 murders over 2 or 3 years in different places is one thing....several mutilation murders in a single Autumn and locale is another....

Hello Abby. If age rules Toppy out, it would also rule out Klosowski. He was roughly the same age.

And don't forget Koz.


Greg

[DVV]

Well and good, but this thread is about Hutch.

[lynn cates]

junior achievement

Hello David.

"Oui, et alors?"

Et ensuite--rien.

But why preclude junior achievement? (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

time space continuum

Hello Greg. That brings up a question I have wanted to ask for some time.

How long must murders be spread out in time and how far distant must they be to cast doubt on the lone killer hypothesis?

To me this is a very serious question.

Cheers.
LC

[The Good Michael]

Hello Abby. If age rules Toppy out, it would also rule out Klosowski. He was roughly the same age.

... and Dahmer, and Ramirez, and Bundy and tons more who must have been wrongly accused. Really silly concept, the age thing. I know it isn't your call Lynn.

Mike

[lynn cates]

age

Hello Michael. I think the age thing is the result of a consensus amongst theoreticians and profilers.

Cheers.
LC

[curious]

Hello Michael. I think the age thing is the result of a consensus amongst theoreticians and profilers.

Cheers.
LC

And perhaps witnesses?

Don't the witness reports indicate that the women were last seen with men in at least the 30-ist range?

Are you as surprised as I am by how much things seem to have been decided by witness testimony when today we consider witness testimony to be the least accurate evidence?

[lynn cates]

witnesses

Hello Velma. Quite right. And you are wise to say, "in at least the 30-ish range." Mrs. Long's sighting was of a much older man.

Cheers.
LC

[GregBaron]

Timeframes...

How long must murders be spread out in time and how far distant must they be to cast doubt on the lone killer hypothesis?

As you probably know Lynn we have instances of long hiatuses between murders. These are the exception rather than the rule however.

In most the compulsion is too strong.

But as with anything dealing with human behavior there are no hard and fast rules...

Coles could be a ripper victim but would indicate a serious de-escalation, another incongruity....

Oh and sorry all about thread creep.......let me lay it straight.....Toppy is innocent, Hutch guilty. Guilty of what I'm not sure........?

Greg

[lynn cates]

time and place

Hello Greg. You are indeed correct that human behaviour is an odd thing.

Regarding the latter, apocryphal murders, I'm sure you've seen the hypothesis advanced that the assailant was suffering from ill health. I humourously refer to this as the "I can't rip them like I used to" thesis.

I also agree that serial killers (of which topic I have almost no interest) have been known to stop for years, only to restart later.

But I still wonder what times and distances researchers use to rule in, or out, the same hand?

Hutch guilty of something? Well, he certainly gave odd testimony and he was close to the scene. That makes him at least as good a suspect for MJK as Daniel Barnett.

Cheers.
LC

[Abby Normal]

... and Dahmer, and Ramirez, and Bundy and tons more who must have been wrongly accused. Really silly concept, the age thing. I know it isn't your call Lynn.

Mike

Hi Mike, Lynn
I meant from the witness point of it as most if not all witnesses described someone older. Sorry-was not clear on that.