Romford to Millers court

[dixon9]

Does anyone know( i have looked but to no avail) how Hutchinson got from Romford back to Millers Court? I believe its about 14 miles from A to B,so would 'jack' have had the energy or be up for a murder after that journey if by foot,or did he just not really go to Romford?
Thanks for any help

Dixon9
still learning

[lynn cates]

money spent

Hello Dixon. Did GH mention to MJK that he had spent all his money "going down to Romford"? If so, perhaps he hired a cab?

Cheers.
LC

[Rubyretro]

I guess (being the word) that he DID go to Romford. It's not all that far and I suppose that there were lots of people who would have seen/met him during his stay in Romford and the minute that his name and witness statement came out in the papers would have recognised who he was.

I'm likewise thinking that if he habitually stayed in lodgings in Whitechapel, but had not actually been away when he said he was, then his lie would have been quickly exposed. So I go with the fact that he was telling the truth about this.

I think that I read that he came back on foot. There was an omnibus from Romford to the East End (check details), and the fact that he said that he walked would fit with his statement that he had no money.

I have to say that I find the 'Romford' trip a fascinating detail : He said that he was looking for work in Romford, but WHAT work and WHY ? Surely there were more odd jobs & labouring jobs to be found in London ? Where would he stay in Romford ? Would he go all that way, pay to stay there, without having a good expectation of work ? If he had worked, wouldn't he have his pay -at least have kept enough for lodgings on his return ?

It is possible that he had heard about a big building site, or something -we should be able to check if there was something like that.

Otherwise, it makes sense to me -IF I accept that Hutch was a groom & IF I accept that Hutch was Toppy -that he went to Romford because he had a sister there that he could lodge with for free, and he was infact looking for a job on a stud or in a more rural area. I would like to know if there were any horse/agricultural fairs held in that area in the weeks precedent (that's where a groom would go looking for work). At any rate we can deduce that he didn't find work there -and might he have had a grievance ?

As to whether it's a feasible walk -well I passed my driving test late, and I lived in a rural area in France, and would regularly walk 4 miles each way for bread when I was younger. 14 miles doesn't seem that far to me for a young & fit man. People would certainly be used to walking longer distances than now -particularly if they had a rural background. There is no indication on whether he stopped off on the way to rest. There is no indication on whether he spent any money saved in the pubs he passed on the way -both of those things would explain him not being so tired and being broke.

I'm not sure that the Kelly murder took a great deal of physical energy (the murderer could have been sitting down) -and the perpetrator would surely be running on adrenalin. He might have had a nice rest by the fire, whilst burning the clothes and hat !! Besides, he was probably used to not sleeping at night,
and was fairly insomniac, and full of nervous energy, even when very tired.

I think that Hutch could have done it after that walk !

[dixon9]

thanks for replys,ruby 14 miles is a fair old hike (if hutch walked) if i have my facts right it was not a very pleasant evening(weather wise ) either.

Dixon9
still learning

[dixon9]

sorry forgot to ask Lynn, any idea how much a cab would have cost Hutch if that was his mode for getting home?

many thanks

Dixon9
still learning

[Rubyretro]

Have just seen from the dates given for Toppy's sister Jane, that she was most likely either living in Kent at this date (she got married there 2 years before), or had already moved to London (where she is known to have lived
a couple of years after the murders).

Therefore, although she was born and died in Essex (so there maybe still a link somewhere), my theory is blown out of the water concerning Hutch
staying with his sister.

(and don't ever accuse me of not being honest !!)

[lynn cates]

centaur

Hello Dixon. I just saw this. Sorry.

I'll try to get you an answer. Perhaps the "Centaur" (cabman's paper) will quote some rates. If so, it will be only an approximation, given that the paper terminated in 1885.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

cab fares

Hello Dixon. I found this:

"The Mayor and Corporation of Windsor have been kind and considerate
towards the visitors to the " Royal." They have fixed the
cab fare from either of the stations to the Show grounds at Is. per
head, and in cases where parties are driven up in brakes or other
conveyances the charge is to be 6d. per head."

From a few other quotes I've seen, this was indeed "kind and considerate." I've seen various entries at 2-3s and more.

If GH really went down to Romford, and if he hired a cab, then this would explain his having spent all his money. Then, as now, cabs are not inexpensive.

Hope this helps.

Cheers.
LC

[Bob Hinton]

In my opinion Hutch didn’t take a cab from Romford it would have cost him the equivalent of several weeks wages, he like most people walked.

I worked out it was about 12-14 miles, and if he walked at a regulation marching pace of about 4.5 miles an hour he could cover the distance in about 3 to 3 ½ hours. Nowadays you are expected to keep up a marching speed over rough and broken ground carrying full pack of 4 Miles an hour. A policeman walks a beat at 2.5 miles an hour and if you want to find out what that is look at the opening of “The Bill”.

I cover the reasons for him going to Romford in my book “From Hell”. That summer Romford had been struck by massive floods that had just about wiped out the town centre. They had to bring in a lot of labourers from the East End to clear up the mess. There was also a massive house building project going on at the same time so work for labourers was plentiful.

The local paper tells of one of the labourers from the East End being arrested for causing alarm one night by getting drunk and going around telling everyone he was Jack the Ripper.

[Hamrammr]

The local paper tells of one of the labourers from the East End being arrested for causing alarm one night by getting drunk and going around telling everyone he was Jack the Ripper.

Hi Bob,

Do you have the original newspaper article, or is it viewable online? I can't imagine the drunkest man being crazy enough to shout that sort of thing in the middle of the street at that time, but who knows? It's an interesting little nugget though.

Dean

[Rubyretro]

Very interesting, Bob.

I think that I read somewhere that Hutch said he walked (I'll try and find it when I've time).

It would take me more like 6 hours to do it ! -but I think that people would have been more used to covering that sort of distance then.

As I said before, I have lived in a rural area without a driving licence, and you
get used to walking things that seem a hike to people with a car. I don't think that it's crazy that a young, fit, victorian man would do this fairly easily.

[spyglass]

Hi Ruby,
I make you right there, it seems people in those times did manage to walk long distances. a couple of examples are
1. William Piggott who was an early suspect managed to walk from Whitechapel to Gravesend, kent. ( my home town ) although not sure which route he took, but I know I would'nt want to walk it.

2. C Eddowes walked from Kent back to London after hop picking just before her death.

[Robert]

When I was about 11, our headmaster suggested to the class that an intertesting walk would be to start off at Ilford and walk into London, stopping somewhere around the Holborn area. He drew a map indicating some of the sights to be seen along the way. This was for a class of 11-year-olds.

I don't have any problem with Hutchinson walking, it's just the motivation for doing such a walk in the pouring rain that puzzles me.

[claire]

That's what makes me wonder, Robert...I've done some silly walks in my time, and anything under 15 miles would embarrass my mother's pensioners' walking group, but why would he? What was so critical that, broke, he would have to walk back up to London, arriving in the middle of the night? If there was money to be made in the context of the Lord Mayor's show, why not aim to arrive (later) in the morning? If not, why hurry back for a public holiday, skint and in the rain?

[Rubyretro]

I guess that we'll never know Claire...but it's a very curious detail. It doesn't really make sense.

I find Bob's story about all the work to be had in Romford for labourers, a very logical explanation for him going there, now. However, if he'd been working, then he ought to have had money in his pocket.

Of course he might have decided to save the cab fare and walk anyway, but you'd imagine that he'd want the money to pay his food and lodging when he got back. So either he hadn't gotten a job -but it was a long way to go unless he was sure of the work. Or he had spent the money in pubs that he passed on the way. Or he DID have some money, but lied about it.

I agree that he had some strange timing to choose to get back to London penniless in the rain..he must surely have calculated how long the trip would take
him before setting off.

I smell a rat somewhere there..