Romford to Millers court

[richardnunweek]

Hi ,
Your correct my friend [ should have known that] well that makes it far more believable....
Richard.

[claire]

Apologies; must have been having a brain bleed

[harry]

My opinion is that Hutchinson did not even go to Romford.It was included in his statement to distance himself from any association with Kelly that night,other than a chance meeting,which appeared to cast her as a person desperately in need of money,and looking for customer,and also as a reason why he was not in his lodging at 2.30am that morning,but outside the court where she resided.Being at Romford was the only part of the story that could be hard for the police to refute,and in reality,hard for him to substanciate should it be investigated,if as I believe he was not there.

[Bob Hinton]

Report

Hi Bob,

Do you have the original newspaper article, or is it viewable online? I can't imagine the drunkest man being crazy enough to shout that sort of thing in the middle of the street at that time, but who knows? It's an interesting little nugget though.

Dean

I don't actually, but it should be fairly easy to locate. I spent several weeks in Romford doing research for my book, and part of that was checking the local newspapers in the Library, so a quick shufty through them should find it again.

I did of course take a record of it but I lost my notebook with the details in, just before I started writing.

Apologies for the delay in replying but I've just got a new computer and am still ironing the bugs out of it.

[Robert]

People did "confess" to being JTR. Actually, I seem to remember one of the effects of the Romford flood, was to send barrels of beer from the brewery floating away down the streets, where they were "rescued" by willing hands.

[Pablito]

Did hutch have a full time job at the time? Am of the opinion Jack must've been working Mon to Fri at the time of the killings as he only killed on weekends.

[Marc]

I'm afraid that he made it up, along with Astrakhan Man.

Interesting point Ruby.
Matter of factly, the only reason we have to believe Hutch that he and MJK were relatives is what he told about it.
Nobody confirmed this, and truth to be said, nobody opposed him either.
Same goes for Romford I'm affraid.

MJK would be the only JTR's victim who was seen by someone who knew her personally only a few yards from the crime scene and not so long before it happened, if the late night TOD is to be accepted.
The description of the man Hutch said to have met in MJK company is, as it seems, the most detailed description ever made of a WM suspect.

One would suppose this chap would have drawn more attention, isn't it ?

If Hutch, or any other JTR suspect, only knew MJK by glancing at her in the area streets, even exchanging occasional chat upon the weather or whatever, nothing forbid MHO to wonder if JTR didn't 'know' his other victims as well.

[dixon9]

I now think after some research that Hutch probably had to walk,as at the turn of century hiring a hansom cab would have cost about a shilling for the first two miles then sixpence every mile over the first two.
Cabs could be hired for the time you had them for,or maybe there were cheaper cabs than the Hansom cab?

Dixon9
still learning

[Robert]

Hi Dixon

Well, as I said earlier I don't see any problem with GH walking - people would walk to Kent to pick hops. I do have a problem with him walking in the pouring rain, but there you go.

But if he didn't feel like walking, I would imagine that lifts could be thumbed from passing carts during the day at least. Night time would be quieter, obviously.

[dixon9]

Hi Robert

just seems strange to me walking that far on a filthy night then wanting to stay outside watching someone's flat.
I really cant make head nor tail of Hutch's story or agenda.lol


Dixon9
still learning

[Fisherman]

Robert writes:

"I do have a problem with him walking in the pouring rain, but there you go."

Most of us will have gone out into the rain and walked at a number of occasions, in spite of the fact that such a thing is uncomfy. Most of us will have walked at night at a number of occasions, although we perhaps may not like to do so. We will have walked distances that are too long for our taste, and we will have walked through environments that we would actually like to avoid.

We cannot always choose to do only the things we want to do, in conditions and surroundings that suite us. At times, circumstances press us to do things we would have chosen to avoid, if there had been the chance to do so.

Therefore, Hutchinsons journey from Romford to Dorset Street should not make us think that this was something he must have lied about. But it should urge us to ponder the very obvious possibility that he left Romford for London because he was pressed to do so by circumstances unknown to us; it could have been that he needed to get there in time to make an appointment, that he was under the impression that he needed to be there in time to secure a job opportunity, that his lodging in Romford suddenly was no longer avaliable to him - any number of things. The main point is that there would probably have been a very clear-cut reason for a late departure in pouring rain. And obviously, if the reason was what Bob Hinton mentions, that he wanted to see Kelly, then he would have been a smitten man indeed ...!

The best,
Fisherman

[harry]

Hutchinson did not have to walk in the rain,there were many places in which he could have sought shelter.At some time he must have been aware he would not reach Whitechapel in time for lodgings.

Unless it is known when he went to Romford,we might be faced with the fact it was the same day,and so the distance is doubled,something over 20 something miles.Normal for those times? Of course,if challenged he could say he hadn't really gone there at all,he said it only to satisfy Kelly as to why he had no money.If his statement is read correctly,he isn't making that claim to police,and it is doubtful if he was asked by police if it were true that he had done so.

[Fisherman]

Harry writes:

"Unless it is known when he went to Romford,we might be faced with the fact it was the same day,and so the distance is doubled,something over 20 something miles."

That, Harry, could well be. This is how the Pall Mall Gazette presents Hutchinsons testimony, on the 14:th of November:

"On Thursday I had been to Romford, and I returned from there about two o'clock on Friday morning, having walked all the way."

Of course, having stated that he had been to Romford on Thursday does not mean that he could not have been there on the day before too, but if that was the case, it would be a strange way to word it. I think we can safely assume that Hutch´s claim was to have walked all the way down to Romford at some time during the Thursday, only to start walking back in the evening of that same day.

"At some time he must have been aware he would not reach Whitechapel in time for lodgings."

For any ordinary lodgings, that is - agreed!

The best,
Fisherman

[Robert]

Yes, I have trouble believing that GH was so romantic as to walk to Spitalfields in the rain just to see Kelly. But then, I have trouble believing that Barnett would walk over from Buller's in the rain to see Kelly. I suppose that says more about me than Hutchinson, Barnett or Kelly.

GH told the police he was out of work. Perhaps he went to Romford on the off chance of finding some flood-related work there? After all, he doesn't, as far as we know, resurface at any time in the future to make a bit of money from the papers from his story. Yet you'd think such a story would be good for a few bob once every few years - he claimed to have seen and spoken to Kelly, and to have a very good description of the man. Therefore, perhaps GH was nearly always in work and took steps - literally - to get it.

[Fisherman]

Robert writes:

"Perhaps he went to Romford on the off chance of finding some flood-related work there?"

Sounds very plausible to me. That would paint the picture of a man, reasonably short on money, who takes a chance to find a few days job in Romford, misses out on the opportunity and spends what little he has on something to eat, and thereafter starts the long walk home towards the Victoria home. In Romford, he would reasonably not have had the connections to talk somebody into letting him doss for a promise of later payment, but he may well have chanced that such a thing could work at the Victoria Home. For all we know, he may have done it before.

One thing that strengthens such a possibility would be if Hutch had a rumour of being totally honest - in such a case, the staff at the Victoria Home would risk nothing by letting him lag behind with the doss money. Plus, it would tally with what you say about him not cashing in on history at later stages, using the newspapers.
It paints a picture of an honest working man, and it tallies with what he supposedly told Kelly about being pennyless. And just like you say, it dovetails quite well with a picture of a man who learnt always to take measures never to be out of work later in life.

All the best,
Fisherman