Topping Hutchinson - looking at his son's account

[richardnunweek]

Hi Ben,
But I am not maintaining that I had come across earth shattering revelations, just a forty minute obscure radio broadcast that proberly had a audience of a few hundred.
I can not produce the goods for it appears that nobody has come across a copy of the relevant radio times which advertised it..
The case of JTR, will never be solved with absolute proof, these boards are full of people that [ including myself] confidently believe they know best, and get annoyed when their opinions are slated.
I happen to believe that is no great deal that its a good possibility that Gwt was the man in question.
So what.?
Its not the identity thats important, just the truth of his account.
Regards Richard.

[Bob Hinton]

That broadcast

Dear Richard,

The point is though that even if you found the broadcast, assembled all the cast to give another performance and find a letter signed and attested by Reg saying that he made the broadcast it would still prove nothing!

It would simply mean that a dead man once made a broadcast in which he repeated something said to him many years ago by a man who is also dead.

As I said if you want to prove your case go and find real evidence and then present it.

Secretly though I hope one day you do find the broadcast, I know how annoying it can be when you are sure of something yet just can't pin it down.

For example I once read somewhere that GH was 28 years old. I discussed this Brian Marriner in about 1996 and we had both read the same article. When I couldn't find it for my book I phoned Brian and asked him to send a copy, unfortunately he died before he could do so. So there you have it, I am convinced I read a newspaper article which gave his age as 28, another person had read the same article, but for the life of me I can't prove it so it must go in the 'nice idea but can't back it up tray'.

[Bob Hinton]

Mr Pirates latest Rant

I'm afraid I've go to mark this one down for repetition, paranoia and frankly being boring. Nice to see you are still keeping up with the personal abuse!

4/10

[richardnunweek]

Hello Bob,
I accept the annoyance factor,one fact is absolutely certain then, one of us is wrong.
If you are correct then Hutchinson was born around 1860, and therefore puts a line through Gwt born 1/10/1866, it would also mean that either the broadcast was not aired, or the son of the man'That saw Jack' was infact an imposter, and not Reg at all.
For that to be correct.
a] I would have to have suffered from delusions at the time,
b] If the speaker was not Reg, or was not directly linked to him, how is it that the information relayed in that broadcast was the same that Reg Hutchinson[ not disputed] stated in Faircloughs book, some 18 years later?
So I quess its check Bob, both of us are adamant that our memories are correct, however as odds is my profession I would lay 1/2 in my favour , simply because your source comes from a obscure press report, and mine comes from an obscure radio broadcast, also a published book, the later unlike your snippit, is avaliable as proof that Reg Hutchinson did infact tell that tale.
Was Gwt the man that claimed to have saw the last victim of JTR, he was the right age 22, to have associated with a woman just a couple of years his senior, he was according to his son very observant, [ which explains the debated detail from GH] he appears from Regs character referance to have been, a respectable hard working , honest individual, who took a pride in not only his work , but his appearance, who appeciated music, and ice skating.
not the kind of man one would associate with being a stalker/pimp/mugger/attention seeker/...murderer.
Anyway Bob, we can only hold our breath until hopefully one day, one of us will have to eat humble pie.
Regards Richard.

[Jeff Leahy]

It’s good that Bob Hinton has finally given up trying to defend an indefensible position. As for his attempt to twist some sympathy as though he didn’t start this abusive fiascos well really Bob, don’t blunder into the kitchen, with your insults half baked.

At least he has had the good sense to be a little more pleasant to Richard, who is quite clearly sincere in his belief about what he heard on the Radio. A word of caution however, any dyslexic can tell you that the brain and memory can often play tricks on you. The brain is basically an interpretation machine that is selective in what it sees/hears and records. I ‘m not saying our brains lie to us but they are not always as accurate in recalling information, as we would like. Or think that we would like.

Hutchinson has become a hot bed of Ripper speculation of late. Perhaps all we have is the obvious, and that is that his tale to Abberline was simply ‘over egged’.

Anyway I shall leave you to your debate but will be keeping an eye out for any Dyslexic xenophobic activity.

Cheers for the information and debate everyone.

Pirate

[Ben]

however as odds is my profession I would lay 1/2 in my favour , simply because your source comes from a obscure press report, and mine comes from an obscure radio broadcast, also a published book, the later unlike your snippit, is avaliable as proof that Reg Hutchinson did infact tell that tale.

In favour of what, Richard?

Reg being the son of the witness, or Reg having aired the broadcast? Because if the former, then I'd bet all my worlds goods that he wasn't. The latter is simply worth zero provenance until evidence that it occured is forthcoming. Until that happens, it's better not to mention it. It's significant the sources used to bolster Toppy as the witness of Kelly fame are highly dubious in themselves.

Was Gwt the man that claimed to have saw the last victim of JTR, he was the right age 22, to have associated with a woman just a couple of years his senior

Doesn't mean much considering we have no idea how old the real George Hutchinson was. For the record, there were other "George Hutchinsons" living in the East End at the time who were also close to Kelly's age. No particular reason to think that any one of them must of been the witness, but they all fit the bill better than Toppy.

Being "observant" doesn't bestow upon someone wildly implausible or superhuman powers of observation and recollection, and the problem here is that Reg recalled that his father became "observant" as a result of his plumbing work. Too bad the real George Hutchinson wasn't a plumber, but a labouring former groom.

Best regards,
Ben

[Jeff Leahy]

As I matter of interest Richard I happen to know that Farson made a TV program after discovering the Abberconway draft of the McNaughten memoranda. Which has since gone missing. I gather from a number of respectable Ripper authors that this program contained some unique interviews that have been lost. Your radio program couldn’t have been connected to this program in some way or by any chance?

Just a thought. I don’t recall mention of Hutchinson but they did interview people who claimed to have connections to the case.

Pirate

[Bob Hinton]

Not to disappoint

Anyway I shall leave you to your debate but will be keeping an eye out for any Dyslexic xenophobic activity.

Pirate

If Dyslexia is a language - it must be a bugger to teach! Just imagine on Monday the teacher assures us the correct way to spell apple is domendj and on Tuesday it's knwisqsn.

[Jeff Leahy]

Ah.. you have given up the masquerade that this is anything other than an attack on people that suffer from dyslexia then BOB.

Yes of course it’s about language and how our brains perceive language in a written form. It might be amusing for you to mock, but for those people who suffer from it, it is a highly frustrating, nay exasperating condition. Especially when trying to communicate in that language that is the cause of the problem. i.e. Letters.

But yes in your mocking, buffoonery, your probably closer to the truth than you realize. Someone who suffers from Dyslexia is never going to spell a word the same way twice (although some errors in some dyslexics do become a repetitive mistake ‘I’ and ‘e’ being my main problem) because spelling isn’t actually the problem it’s the way his or her brain perceives letters and patterns. Which is simply different from yours.

But of course trying to explain that to someone who has long since turned off to anything that doesn’t exist in his own narrow-minded view of the world is impossible.

Pompously strutting around the place with a plank stuck in his eye…giving lectures about why people should use dictionaries when they themselves appear not to know the meaning of most of the words it contains…and then having the audacity to mock others.

No doubt having just **** stirred his usual xenophobia he will now try and plead innocence and in mocking disbelief, fane that he has been ‘ranted against’ and ‘abused’ ....my heart goes out to you Bob Hinton.

[David Knott]

With respect my friend if you are a betting man[ I am] then your 99.9 percent would be classed a a sure thing, but dont wager on it David, because you, along with Regs relatives, and the entire legions of Casebook will lose their hard earned cash.

Richard,

I certainly am a betting man - I used to do it for a living, and still do very nicely out of it thankyou! I am also a qualified statistician, and for three years worked as an analyst for one of the world's largest insurers. I understand probability theory, and I stand by my 99.99%

As you work in the betting industry, perhaps your employers would like to offer me some odds on being able to prove that the radio broadcast never took place? I might be interested.

Cheers
David

[richardnunweek]

Hello David,
Its a rare treat to be able to communicate with a punter that actual does all right, i have been in the trade since 74 and that honour is a very unusual happening.apart from a few privileged gentleman that are usually syndicated,most of us struggle to make it pay.
Anyway without giving any family secret away, can you convince me that Gwt Hutchinson was fabricating the truth to his son Reg, and if this were so , how he got hold of the payment story when it was not mentioned in the press.?[ apart from a rare paper.
Also without giving away any family secrets, can you convince me that Reg Hutchinson made the whole story up, rather like Joseph Sickert?
I can only repeat my claim, I heard a radio broadcast aired about 8pm weekday approx 1974, and the son of the witness named as Hutchinson gave a taped interview, as that interview repeated what Reg featured in the Ripper and the Royals I must state the obvious, ie, Reg Hutchinson proven son of GWT Hutchinson gave that interview for the programme in question, and therefore Gwt Hutchinson was the actual GH we all discuss.
Regards Richard.

[David Knott]

Richard,

Well, I think that there's more of us about than there used to be thanks to betting exchanges - not least of all because they don't stop taking your bets when you're winning!! I'm not one of those shady characters with inside information .. it's all down to statistical analysis and I do my betting on the internet.

I will think about what information I can post.

In the meantime, I don't really understand why, if the interview was on an obscure station with only a few hundred listeners, it would feature prominently in the Radio Times.

Incidentally, I don't doubt for a moment that you did hear an interview of the nature that you describe ... I just don't think it was with Reg.

Can you describe the Radio Times piece - I might be able to track this down next time I'm in Colindale.

Cheers
David

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
Betting exchanges are not for me, rather old fashion in my approach.
Regards to my memory, I can only recall it was featured in the Radio Times, the only downfall is the actual year73-75 would be a good estimate, it had a small paragraph advertising it, the wavelength it was to be on etc, and it refered to the man that saw jack.
I recall that it was on a weekday, and was aired at 8pm, and lasted approx 40minutes, it most certainly had a taped interview with a man who was named as the son of the witness.and i recall not only this persons account of his fathers description[ astracan] but also a payment paid, also he recalled his fathers stating 'It was his biggest regret' that nothing came of his help.
By using the term obscure, I mean it was mot a popular wavelength like radio 2/radio 1, more a radio 5/4, because I had some trouble finding it on my radio.
I am sorry, I cannot be more precise.
I would like to know why you appear so confident that Reg Hutchinsons father, was not the observant Hutchinson in commercial street that morning, and witnessed kelly and our Mr Astracan?
Regards Richard.

[Stephen Thomas]

In the meantime, I don't really understand why, if the interview was on an obscure station with only a few hundred listeners, it would feature prominently in the Radio Times.

You must be a young man, David.

There was no such thing as an obscure radio station in Britain in those days.

[Jeff Leahy]

You must be a young man, David.

There was no such thing as an obscure radio station in Britain in those days.

Could you be more precise about the date?

Pirate