Why Didn't the Police Have Schwartz and/or Lawende Take a Look at Hutchinson?

[Simon Wood]

It would appear that Abberline wasn't sufficiently savvy to work out for himself the 'arm through the window' trick.

Abberline [inquest testimony]—

"Barnett informs me that it [the key] has been missing some time, and since it has been lost they have put their hand through the broken window, and moved back the catch. It is quite easy."

[DJA]

Abberline wasn't sufficiently savvy to grab any of the upper class involved in the Cleveland Street Scandal 9 months later.

[Darryl Kenyon]

Without trying to sound too pedantic, do we know what kind of lock and catch was on the door of 13 Millers Court?
I think I need a key to unlock my brain on this little mystery.

[Robert St Devil]

Without trying to sound too pedantic, do we know what kind of lock and catch was on the door of 13 Millers Court?
I think I need a key to unlock my brain on this little mystery.

there was this thread (with pics courtesy of Bob Hinton): https://www.casebook.org/forum/messages/4921/6718.html

[Darryl Kenyon]

there was this thread (with pics courtesy of Bob Hinton): https://www.casebook.org/forum/messages/4921/6718.html

Thanks Robert. Interesting stuff and good photo's

[Batman]

Just an update on the possibility of oily newspaper carrying fish and potatoes being mistaken for American oilcloth...

William Smith, 452 H Division: On Saturday last I went on duty at ten p.m. My beat was past Berner- street, and would take me twenty-five minutes or half an hour to go round. I was in Berner-street about half-past twelve or twenty-five minutes to one o'clock, and having gone round my beat, was at the Commercial-road corner of Berner-street again at one o'clock. I was not called. I saw a crowd outside the gates of No. 40, Berner-street. I heard no cries of "Police." When I came to the spot two constables had already arrived. The gates at the side of the club were not then closed. I do not remember that I passed any person on my way down. I saw that the woman was dead, and I went to the police-station for the ambulance, leaving the other constables in charge of the body. Dr. Blackwell's assistant arrived just as I was going away.
The Coroner: Had you noticed any man or woman in Berner-street when you were there before? - Yes, talking together.
[Coroner] Was the woman anything like the deceased? - Yes. I saw her face, and I think the body at the mortuary is that of the same woman.
[Coroner] Are you certain? - I feel certain. She stood on the pavement a few yards from where the body was found, but on the opposite side of the street.
[Coroner] Did you look at the man at all? - Yes.
[Coroner] What did you notice about him? - He had a parcel wrapped in a newspaper in his hand. The parcel was about 18in. long and 6in. to 8in. broad.
[Coroner] Did you notice his height? - He was about 5ft. 7in.
[Coroner] His hat? - He wore a dark felt deerstalker's hat.
[Coroner] Clothes? - His clothes were dark. The coat was a cutaway coat.
[Coroner] Did you overhear any conversation? - No.
[Coroner] Did they seem to be sober? - Yes, both.
[Coroner] Did you see the man's face? - He had no whiskers, but I did not notice him much. I should say he was twenty-eight years of age. He was of respectable appearance, but I could not state what he was. The woman had a flower in her breast. It rained very little after eleven o'clock. There were but few about in the bye streets. When I saw the body at the mortuary I recognised it at once.

[Simon Wood]

He had a parcel wrapped in a newspaper in his hand. The parcel was about 18in. long and 6in. to 8in. broad.

That would be a huge portion of fish and chips.

[Wickerman]

Well, he was providing for two victims that night....

[Batman]

Well, he was providing for two victims that night....

Okay, you earn yourself a Basil Brush.

[DJA]

He had a parcel wrapped in a newspaper in his hand. The parcel was about 18in. long and 6in. to 8in. broad.

That would be a huge portion of fish and chips.

Obviously more concerned with salt and batter than ripping.

[Sam Flynn]

Obviously more concerned with salt and batter than ripping.

But they were probably fried in beef (d)ripping nonetheless.

[Michael W Richards]

Without trying to sound too pedantic, do we know what kind of lock and catch was on the door of 13 Millers Court?
I think I need a key to unlock my brain on this little mystery.

The Spring Latch was something that had to be disengaged to allow for the door to remain unlocked, which means the killer disengaged the lock when he left the room. That latch could be accessed from the window, due to the fact that the door was almost at the corner of the room, and the windows broken panel(s) was also close to that corner.

the really important factoids about the spring latch, imho, are that ;


A) It was disengaged by the killer
B) It could have been accessed to allow people into the room.


Point B makes the statements that they had to force the door open less believable.

[Wolf Vanderlinden]

Back to the coat over the door for a moment.

Correction: Sunday Times one, mythbusters nil.

Or, Thomas Bowyer 1, Sunday Times and Drew 0.

“The man, failing to get any answer by knocking, went to the window, which had been broken and patched by rags for some time past, and on pushing the rags aside was startled by the sight of blood.” The London Daily News, 10 November, 1888. (Rags, but no coat, curtain or blind.)

“Mr. McCarthy at once returned with him, and finding a corner of one of the window panes broken pushed his fingers far enough to thrust aside the blind.” Lloyd’sWeekly Newspaper, 11 November, 1888. (Blind, but no coat or curtain).

From one of the more lengthy and detailed accounts of Bowyer’s inquest testimony: “I went round the corner by the gutter-spout, where there is a small pane of glass broken in the large window. …. There was a curtain before the window, which covered both windows. I pulled the curtain aside and looked in.” The London Evening Standard, 13 November, 1888. (Curtain, but no coat.)

Note the absence in all of these of any mention of the coat over the window.

And to add to the blinds or curtain debate, Mary Ann Cox in her statement to the police stated: “There was light in the room when she was singing I saw nothing as the blinds were down…”

Wolf.

[Wolf Vanderlinden]

The Spring Latch was something that had to be disengaged to allow for the door to remain unlocked, which means the killer disengaged the lock when he left the room. That latch could be accessed from the window, due to the fact that the door was almost at the corner of the room, and the windows broken panel(s) was also close to that corner.

This from the London Daily News, 10 November, 1888:

"The door was fastened, not that it had been locked from the inside, but having a catch-lock the person who had gone out last had merely slammed the door behind him, and it had thus become fastened."

This suggests that you only had to slam the door in order to lock it.

Wolf.

[Wickerman]

Yes, slamming the door would automatically lock the door, providing the retaining knob on the inside was in the release position.
If the knob is in the retained position, and the door bolt is withdrawn the door would just bang against the door frame and swing open again.