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Why Didn't the Police Have Schwartz and/or Lawende Take a Look at Hutchinson?

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  • Originally posted by Darryl Kenyon View Post
    That's what I was thinking, Batman. It does seem a reasonable enough question to be asked at the inquest considering the trouble they had getting in the room.
    There are only really a few permutations to what could have happened but what we can say is this - whoever MJK brought back to her room must have been someone she trusted to have shown him the trick of getting into her room because of a lost key. Is that something she would just show to anyone she brought back? At the height of the Ripper murders? In Ripper central? How precarious she would be to do this.

    Couple this with the sing-song and fish and potatoes suppers and one could swear it was just a normal evening home she was having.
    Bona fide canonical and then some.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Wickerman View Post
      Why do you assume that McCarthy knew the lock could be reached through one of the broken panes?
      It's jumping to conclusions that is the basis of too many theories in this case.
      Anyone who had looked through the broken window would realise over the course of a couple of hours that the door lock was well within reach.

      Crikey a lecture on too many theories from you is a laugh.
      My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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      • Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
        Strange that the key should be found after the door had been broken open.
        Yes. Life's never like that, is it?
        Kind regards, Sam Flynn

        "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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        • Hi Sam,

          It is in Ripperland.

          Have a warm, safe Christmas and a prosperous New Year.

          Regards,

          Simon

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Batman View Post
            There are only really a few permutations to what could have happened but what we can say is this - whoever MJK brought back to her room must have been someone she trusted to have shown him the trick of getting into her room because of a lost key. Is that something she would just show to anyone she brought back? At the height of the Ripper murders? In Ripper central? How precarious she would be to do this.

            Couple this with the sing-song and fish and potatoes suppers and one could swear it was just a normal evening home she was having.
            But if her killer was someone who came to her door and she willingly let them in then the key plays no part in it.

            c.d.

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            • Originally posted by c.d. View Post
              But if her killer was someone who came to her door and she willingly let them in then the key plays no part in it.

              c.d.
              That's true too I suppose. We can't discount that someone paid a late night visit and was let inside.
              Bona fide canonical and then some.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Darryl Kenyon View Post
                If we look at Mary Cox's testimony [Coroner] The chin was shaven ? - Yes. A lamp faced the door.
                [Coroner] Did you see them go into her room ? - Yes; I said "Good night, Mary," and she turned round and banged the door.
                So with the lamp facing the door. I am assuming that Mary Cox would have seen Mary go round the side to open the door through the broken pane. Of course, she may not have mentioned it, but I am just wondering if the key was found a day or two earlier? The killer then locked the door from the outside and maybe threw the key in the room through the smashed window.
                I recall reading that the need to lock a door is different in our day than it was in the East End of the time.
                People locked their door (or barricaded it - Prater?), when they were home. The need was for personal safety, not to protect their possessions, they had no possessions worth stealing. So they didn't lock the door when they went out. This would explain why loosing a key was no problem, the tenant never used one anyway.
                This being the case Cox would not see Kelly unlock her door, or reach through the window, when she saw her at midnight with Blotchy. Kelly would just walk right in, which is what Cox said.
                Regards, Jon S.

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                • I think you are correct, Wick. I sometimes see that a homeless person has left their possessions unguarded and I think wow anybody could just steal them and then I think but what do they have that anybody would want?

                  c.d.

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                  • Yet Barnett suggests they were locking it.

                    An impression has gone abroad that the murderer took away the key of the room. Barnett informs me that it has been missing some time, and since it has been lost they have put their hand through the broken window, and moved back the catch. It is quite easy. - Abberline.
                    Bona fide canonical and then some.

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                    • Millers Court tenant, 41 year-old charwoman, Julia Venturney, testified—

                      “She broke the windows a few weeks ago whilst drunk . . .”

                      Happily, the windows got broken before the key went missing. Had the key been lost first, Barnett would have had to deliberately break the window in order to gain access to the room.
                      Last edited by Simon Wood; 12-09-2018, 02:18 PM.

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                      • He would still need to reach through the window when he came home and Kelly was inside asleep. He can do that without waking her up or disturbing her.
                        The case of Kelly may be slightly different because it seems her & Harvey were running a cleaning business from that room, which would necessitate the keeping of clothes belonging to others so she may have been inclined to locking her door when she went out if Mrs Harvey had just brought a bagful of clothes to wash.
                        She wouldn't want them stolen, but that may have been an infrequent measure.
                        Regards, Jon S.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
                          Millers Court tenant, 41 year-old charwoman, Julia Venturney, testified—

                          “She broke the windows a few weeks ago whilst drunk . . .”

                          Happily, the window got broken before the key went missing. Had the key been lost first, Barnett would have had to deliberately break the window in order to gain access to the room.
                          So you agree then that McCarthy cannot be expected to know about this recent means of gaining admittance via the broken window?
                          Regards, Jon S.

                          Comment


                          • Hi Jon,

                            I do?

                            Kindly explain.

                            Regards,

                            Simon

                            Comment


                            • The breaking of the window being a recent event. Unless McCarthy had ever had cause to reach through himself he may never have known it was possible.
                              Regards, Jon S.

                              Comment


                              • Given all the police in attendance with McCarthy,surely someone would have woken up to the fact that if, just one of them put their arm less than 18 inches through the broken window,the door could be easily opened.

                                Bleedin' obvious as Basil would say.
                                My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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