Any updates, or opinions on this witness.

[Paddy]

Like some of you I have been trying to trace different George Hutchinsons.

The one I found in the vagrants register in Southwark who was a Groom and had been walking about the night before seemed interesting...
This is a possible time line for him with his signature at the end. Any input would be great....

1845. (Ldn Marr & Banns) A Luke Hutchinson married an Eliza Louisa Knight in Poplar
1) Henry Richard Frederick born 1846 Dec Qtr Stepney (Died age 5) (Mum Knight)
2) Alice Louisa born Mar 1848 Wakefield (mum called Whentrop Knight)
3) George born 1852 Lambeth. (Mum Knight)

April 1851) Alice Louisa and Anna Maria were baptised All saints Manchester (Twins?) Alice was born in Wakefield. Where father Luke appears to have come from. Cant find Anna Maria.

Dec 10th 1856 a George Hutchinson was brought into St Georges by Ann Hare of Gun Street (Blackfriars) being abandoned by parents. Father not heard of for 4 years and mother gone to America (think it says she had a deformed back ?) seamstress

A Luke Hutchinson did go to America and also Corfu . Not seen in earlier UK census. He is living in Oxfordshire in later census with another family.

Dec 13th 1856 George Hutchinson discharged from St Georges Workhouse
Mint street to go to Mitcham Industrial school in Sutton Surrey (aged 10 ?)

1861 census) George is in District Lambeth Workhouse Industrial School and his mother Eliza Louisa Hutchinson is a servant born Manchester in Islington and said to be a widow.
Alice is a servant aged 13 born N Yorkshire in Thames Ditton, Surrey.

1871 census) 247 Waterloo Road Lambeth
Eliza Hutchinson 43 Married born manchester Needlewoman
Alice born 1849 Wakefield Yorks machinist
George born 1853 Lambeth Telegraph messenger

1872) Alice Louisa Hutchinson marries Arthur Taylor a gemsmith in Lambeth

1881 census) Mother Eliza Louisa Hutchinson a nurse in Poplar (widow) born Manchester

1885) George Hutchinson aged 30 Saint George´s Workhouse, Mint Street Register of Vagrants, Groom.... Spent last night walking about. Going to London

That's all I can find so far? Cant find George in 1881 on census.
Pat.....

[Varqm]

One of the problems I have with Hutch is that the one person who could verify his movements, Sarah Lewis, he doesn't seem to mention.
There is the possibility he mentioned her to Abberline when he interrogated him but we simply don't know.

Or mentioning in newspaper statements.As posted before the sighting of the woman was more notable than the lodger who went to the lodging house and the PC who passed by Commercial St. side of Dorset St..
Without other people in the street the woman passed by in front of him,the others were farther away.Hutch was looking at Kelly's room ("looking as if waiting for someone") - his main interest or what was happening there,this woman went inside and passed by it.Surely this was the most mentionable experience/sighting.

There is/was something wrong with the picture.

----

[Darryl Kenyon]

One of the problems I have with Hutch is that the one person who could verify his movements, Sarah Lewis, he doesn't seem to mention.
There is the possibility he mentioned her to Abberline when he interrogated him but we simply don't know.

[Wickerman]

especially if you have no alibi

Badham didn't ask if he had an alibi. Hutch wasn't defending himself, he was only reporting an incident.
It's Abberline who would have asked him about an alibi, and we have no record of what was said.
So, it isn't true to say he didn't have one, we just don't know if he did.

[Abby Normal]

The Victoria Homes appear to have been better establishments than the regular common lodging-houses.

There has been some debate why Hutchinson would choose to be out on the streets for a couple of hours (3 till 5?) rather than take a spot in any number of common lodging-houses that must have been open.
As the place where he "usually slept" was closed, he chose to walk around until somewhere decent opened up, he chose the Victoria Home.

If this report of a common lodging-house is anything to go by, then spending a couple of extra hours on the street might be viewed as a couple of hours well spent.



I think I would prefer the streets for a couple of hours too.

especially if you have no alibi

[Darryl Kenyon]

For those interested, here is the thread concerning the Victoria Home and Debs find

https://forum.casebook.org/archive/i...hp/t-1420.html

Thanks Jerry

[Wickerman]

The Victoria Homes appear to have been better establishments than the regular common lodging-houses.

There has been some debate why Hutchinson would choose to be out on the streets for a couple of hours (3 till 5?) rather than take a spot in any number of common lodging-houses that must have been open.
As the place where he "usually slept" was closed, he chose to walk around until somewhere decent opened up, he chose the Victoria Home.

If this report of a common lodging-house is anything to go by, then spending a couple of extra hours on the street might be viewed as a couple of hours well spent.



I think I would prefer the streets for a couple of hours too.

[jerryd]

For those interested, here is the thread concerning the Victoria Home and Debs find

https://forum.casebook.org/archive/index.php/t-1420.html

[jerryd]

This is an excerpt posted by Debs from an article she found on the Victoria Home. It appears a register of names was used.

Registers are kept of lodgers. Every man's name and occupation is entered in the books and these records against the names are filled up and make brief histories. Lodgers who use the house regularly for 6 nights are taken in free on the seventh.

[Wickerman]

Hi Wick, I take your point about the lodging houses maybe just entering an x in some cases, [after all not all Victorians could read or write] when a bed was taken. But I do feel that one of the first port of calls for the police would be the Victoria home to see if Hutchinson's story checked out. Perhaps somebody there knew Hutch quite well who could verify that he came in first thing the following morning, or didn't spend the night before there.

Hi Darryl.

I certainly do agree that they had the time to check what time Hutch came in that morning to the Victoria Home.

Hutch may even have told Abberline which lodger it was who advised him to go to police. So they may have spoke with several lodgers, but that doesn't confirm his activities in Dorset street on the night in question.
And JerryD's finding supports your suggestion.
Good point, thankyou.

[packers stem]

The signature debate is fairly straightforward really
The differences come in the capitals mainly
You don't alter the capital of your surname from one signed sheet to the next..... it's the focal point of your signature .
The only common sense solution , unpalatable as it may be to some , is that the person who signed the name on each sheet was probably the same person but he was not used to signing the name .
He was above average educated for the area and his handwriting shows he was well used to the pen so it's not a question as to him being familiar with signing..... he just signed a name he was unfamiliar with and at some point between signing page one and page two he'd forgotten exactly how he had signed it .By page three he was concerned he'd messed up and made the H look 'messy' to try to hide his error .
His name was not George Hutchinson
Not rocket science guys

[jerryd]

A man questioned in the McKenzie murder was living at the Victoria home. His identity and reputation were verified by the police with an employee of the Victoria home.

[Darryl Kenyon]

Hi Wick, I take your point about the lodging houses maybe just entering an x in some cases, [after all not all Victorians could read or write] when a bed was taken. But I do feel that one of the first port of calls for the police would be the Victoria home to see if Hutchinson's story checked out. Perhaps somebody there knew Hutch quite well who could verify that he came in first thing the following morning, or didn't spend the night before there.

[Wickerman]

Wilkinson, from the Eddowes case, the lodging-house keeper in Flower & Dean street, testified that he did not enter the names of his lodgers in the book, he just wrote an 'X' and the room number taken.
Given that there was no form of identity in those days taking names may have been viewed as pointless.
Likely the main concern of a deputy is to fill the beds, with no concern for who is in the beds.

[Sam Flynn]

One possible enquiry the police could have followed is following up on Hutch's testimony at the Victoria home. IE - Did he not have a bed for the night in question? and did he come into the premises the following morning at the time he said? I am not sure if this sort of establishment would keep ledgers of the comings and goings of its lodgers but its a possibility.

The Victoria Home was by all accounts well run by responsible people (weren't some of the management former policemen?), so it is indeed a possibility - especially if this was indeed the place where Hutchinson "usually stayed" and he was known to those in charge and/or some of the other regular residents, whether ledgers were kept or not.