The profession of Jack the Ripper.

[Mayerling]

Slight chance about this, but let's give it a shot.

From Belton Cobb's Murdered On Duty: A Chronicle of the Killing of Policemen (London, W. H. Allen, 1961), p. 103.

"At Wreckenton, near Gateshead, on January 25th, 1889, a man named Wilkinson was brought before the magistrates by Police Constable Graham on a charge of brawling and using obscene language. He was fined half a crown. As he left the court after paying the fine, he took his revenge on Constable Graham by drawing a knife and stabbing him in the heart."

Note: by being murdered in January 1889 P.C. Graham was (at that time) rather notable as a policeman. However the case never became one of the ones that are constantly discussed or re-discussed, so that Graham has become less well known since then. If I had not read Cobb's book I'd not know about it at all.

Anyone want to look into the full story of this policeman murder case.

Note, "Clay Pipe" Alice was killed in September 1889.

Jeff

[Craig H]

Craig,

Did wonder if Pierre was doing some family research, not necessarily his own, but maybe for someone else. I say this because he did say he came across data while researching something else.

Are we looking too high up in the police? A local officer would be better suited to appearing and disappearing.
He did say the suspect was well known in his day, but not now. would any of those you mention fit that?
Littlechild may have been well known in the force, but was he known to the public at all? and the picture reference does seem to rule him out.



we were also told the the name JACK meant something to him, so obviously we need to look at anyone called John, Littlechild, Spratling and any others and see if they match any of the clues.

Date he was born before.
Serving police official.
Well Educated.
lived for a period in a mansion, this could have been as child of servant of course, or as one himself.
Well known at the Time.
No photo readily available, but some of relatives available.
Had resentment of police due to some sort of perceived slight, I note Roberts was promoted in 1887.
Reasons for killings stopped in late 89.


if we fine someone who matches all of those points we may have the suspect.

Steve

Hi Steve,

You suggested looking for a police official whose name was John, or Spratling, as Pierre said the name "Jack" meant something or was a nickname.

Inspector John Sprawling was born 1845 (so 43 y.o during the killings), his father was a policeman, married Emma Martha (nee Ham) in 1875, had one son Frederick Thomas in 1881, and died in 1938 (probate 300 pound)

In 1881 they lived at 10 Scarsdale Terrace, Kensington (near Kensington High St ??) and at 1891 Census they lived at 78 Gore road, Bethnal Green. Both appear to be good homes, but not mansions. Can't find them in 1881 Census.

There are articles about Inspector John Spratling in Casebook. No photo.

I'm not sure if you would say he lived in high status home - which is something Pierre highlights.

Regards
Craig

[Pandora]

Hi Steve,

You suggested looking for a police official whose name was John, or Spratling, as Pierre said the name "Jack" meant something or was a nickname.

Inspector John Spratling was born 1845 (so 43 y.o during the killings), his father was a policeman, married Emma Martha (nee Ham) in 1875, had one son Frederick Thomas in 1881, and died in 1938 (probate 300 pound)

In 1881 they lived at 10 Scarsdale Terrace, Kensington (near Kensington High St ??) and at 1891 Census they lived at 78 Gore road, Bethnal Green. Both appear to be good homes, but not mansions. Can't find them in 1881 Census.

There are articles about Inspector John Spratling in Casebook. No photo.

I'm not sure if you would say he lived in high status home - which is something Pierre highlights.

Regards
Craig

Hi Craig, I too, think that Pierre's suspect was John Spratling, both for your reasons outlined above, and this...

Could his connection to the name "Jack" be due to this well know English rhyme based on a proverb from the 17th Century - which has a clear link to his last name?

"Jack Sprat could eat no fat.
His wife could eat no lean.
And so between them both, you see,
They licked the platter clean"

Cheers,
Pandora.

[Elamarna]

Hi Steve,

You suggested looking for a police official whose name was John, or Spratling, as Pierre said the name "Jack" meant something or was a nickname.

Inspector John Sprawling was born 1845 (so 43 y.o during the killings), his father was a policeman, married Emma Martha (nee Ham) in 1875, had one son Frederick Thomas in 1881, and died in 1938 (probate 300 pound)

In 1881 they lived at 10 Scarsdale Terrace, Kensington (near Kensington High St ??) and at 1891 Census they lived at 78 Gore road, Bethnal Green. Both appear to be good homes, but not mansions. Can't find them in 1881 Census.

There are articles about Inspector John Spratling in Casebook. No photo.

I'm not sure if you would say he lived in high status home - which is something Pierre highlights.

Regards
Craig

Hi Craig,

still working my way through the list. Coming to some interesting conclusions.

We appear to have 2 types of evidence,

1. No photo.

2.Had been seriously wronged by authority.

Which seem not to fit well together on the available evidence.

The thing to note with the house was Pierre said :

"I think I know that he was well educated and that he lived for a short time in a house that looked a bit like this one "

I have underlined the important bit.

That could mean a few weeks or months, could have been working in service for a brief period, that may be extremely hard to trace, family were in service so he was in that type of house as a child or staying with a family member in service, doesn’t need to be high status himself.

Alternatively it could mean that he stayed as a guest of the owner, or owners family for a period, this could be due to links professionally or educationally.

Indeed the "he lived for a short time" would almost seem to say that was not his normal type of housing.

Should get back to by middle of week with my comments on list.


regards

[jerryd]

There are articles about Inspector John Spratling in Casebook. No photo.

Regards
Craig

No photo, but a sketch in the archives of Casebook.

http://photos.casebook.org/displayimage.php?album=57&pos=20

[GUT]

Of course the idea he was a copper isnt anything new

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=1456

[Pandora]

Hi Craig, I too, think that Pierre's suspect was John Spratling, both for your reasons outlined above, and this...

Could his connection to the name "Jack" be due to this well know English rhyme based on a proverb from the 17th Century - which has a clear link to his last name?

"Jack Sprat could eat no fat.
His wife could eat no lean.
And so between them both, you see,
They licked the platter clean"

Cheers,
Pandora.

I found this as well, a "trick taking" card game from 1888 called Jack Sprat. http://www.museumofplay.org/online-c.../3/41/107.3168

If Pierre believe's using the name "Jack" was a clue to his true identity, then "Jack Sprat" is as good a clue to Spratling as anything.

Cheers,
Pandora.

[DJA]

Jack might imply a seafaring background,family wise.

Father and Uncle might have been Master Mariners with enough money to send Jack to medical school in London.

[Joshua Rogan]

Slight chance about this, but let's give it a shot.

From Belton Cobb's Murdered On Duty: A Chronicle of the Killing of Policemen (London, W. H. Allen, 1961), p. 103.

"At Wreckenton, near Gateshead, on January 25th, 1889, a man named Wilkinson was brought before the magistrates by Police Constable Graham on a charge of brawling and using obscene language. He was fined half a crown. As he left the court after paying the fine, he took his revenge on Constable Graham by drawing a knife and stabbing him in the heart."

Note: by being murdered in January 1889 P.C. Graham was (at that time) rather notable as a policeman. However the case never became one of the ones that are constantly discussed or re-discussed, so that Graham has become less well known since then. If I had not read Cobb's book I'd not know about it at all.

Anyone want to look into the full story of this policeman murder case.

Note, "Clay Pipe" Alice was killed in September 1889.

Jeff

A quick google brought up this fuller account;

http://www.gatesheadpolice.org/pcjohngraham.htm

If you're suggeting that he might be a fit for Pierre's candidate, well.... He was known as Jack, but that's about it. It seems rather unlikely that a village Bobby nearly 300 miles from London was JTR.

Ps I think Alice was murdered in July, not September

[Elamarna]

Jack might imply a seafaring background,family wise.

Father and Uncle might have been Master Mariners with enough money to send Jack to medical school in London.

Hi DJA,

yes that is true, assuming any of us buy into the killer giving himself the name. This of course is part of the theory Pierre has put forward.

Not sure if I have asked you before, do you buy into the idea the killer gave himself his name?

all the best

steve

[Elamarna]

Of course the idea he was a copper isnt anything new

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=1456

Agreed Gut,

However someone seemed to think when Pierre suggested a Police office it was the first time this had been mentioned and was ground breaking, can't remember who it was?

steve

[DJA]

Not really.

All the Best!

PS. Jack was not a policeman.

[Elamarna]

Not really.

All the Best!

PS. Jack was not a policeman.

I was pretty sure you didn't, given what you have said about your suspect.

While I would not say 100% the killer was not a policeman, i would say 90-95% that he was not.

cheers

steve

[GUT]

Hi DJA,

yes that is true, assuming any of us buy into the killer giving himself the name. This of course is part of the theory Pierre has put forward.

Not sure if I have asked you before, do you buy into the idea the killer gave himself his name?

all the best

steve

You asked DJA I know, but for me I doubt it.

[DJA]

I was pretty sure you didn't, given what you have said about your suspect.

While I would not say 100% the killer was not a policeman, i would say 90-95% that he was not.

cheers

steve

He was a physician who had treated Nichols and Eddowes for over twenty years.