Macnaghten as a suspect

[Dan Norder]

I highly recommend putting the complete and utter nutjobs into your personal ignore list.

It makes all the insane ranting and raving turn into this:

[ATTACH]2850[/ATTACH]

[Jeff Leahy]

If that's the sort of evidence that proves things for you then it's quite easy to see why the odd mad folks pop up insisting that Macnaghten did it.

Especially when post #49 says this..

Come on Victor

The Norder was clearly responding to my post which demonstrates that he was peeking at them..

He was cault with his pants down, fair and square...I have provided the evidence that Dan Norder is a liar..

I challenge him to provide the evidence that I am a liar..

Something he can not do. Because I am NOT.

The Norder is clearly throwing around more unsubstantiated opinion that he can not back up with proof..

Where as I just did.

Pirate

"who do you think you are kidding Mr Hitler"

[Captain Hook]

After all, I'm just an insane Corsican who lived in peaceful places like Ethiopia and Somalia for years...

Qu'est-ce que tu faisais en Éthiopie et Somalie, David? Je ne connais pas la Somalie, mais je suis allé plusieurs fois en Éthiopie.

À plus,
Crochet

[Celesta]

Damon,

There is a history of a small group of French speakers, Sophie Herfort (sp?) being one of them, who come on this website only to promote some idea, or "new" piece of writing. Historically, they have been pleasant at first, and then have taken the abusive route when doubted or questioned. I'm certain it is the same group over and over again. It happens perhaps every 8 or 9 months. Obviously they are not representative of the majority of Francophones. Yet, it is sad that they are the majority of those who post here. DVV, or David is the more correct example of the educated French speaker who is here to learn and to help.

Cheers,

Mike

Yes, Mike. I was just about to post similar remarks. It does seem to follow the same pattern. The first one was someone calling himself Georges Hodel and even though he was asked if he was Sophie, he denied it. It turned out that they were the same person. She, in the persona of Georges, denied being Sophie at least twice when I asked her. That tends to make me reticent to read the book. Georges aka Sophie did not speak, or at least write, English as well as Strong, so I don't think this is Sophie but one of her pals. Stephen had to shut the thread down. I would have been happy to read Sophie's book, but this kind of behavior puts me off. Also, this person should not be threatening people.

And you are right, David is a fine member of the Casebook, who is knowledgable and pleasant.

Also, the guy who found the body thought at first it looked like a tarp and discovered it wasn't.

Cel

[Victor]

Ah!! Then you are reading my posts Norder!!!

If that's the sort of evidence that proves things for you then it's quite easy to see why the odd mad folks pop up insisting that Macnaghten did it.

Especially when post #49 says this...

But what if someone quotes your response, Pirate?

[DVV]

I've only just rejoined these forums after a big hiatus (and then I found out that there was a database crash and my account died) and I've been reading these threads. Man, but is She Strong agressive. I can understand standing up for a point of view, but you completely lose your public when you start insulting those around you...

She's waiting for me in Cyprus (sur-Moselle) for a fight!
What a joke...
You can't imagine how much I shiver!
After all, I'm just an insane Corsican who lived in peaceful places like Ethiopia and Somalia for years...

Amitiés,
David

[DVV]

Salut Crochet,
il me semble que tu as très bien compris ses divagations, et ton français est bien meilleur que son anglais.
J'espère franchement que "She Strong" est bien Herfort, sinon ce serait encore plus triste pour "She Strong".
Tout le monde a bien vu qu'elle n'envoyait des posts qu'à propos de son livre-bêtisier et se désintéressait complètement des autres discussions (où pourtant elle pourrait continuer à nous faire rire).
En fait, je crois qu'elle aimerait que son Macnaghten soit classé parmi les suspects, qu'il atteigne ce statut aux côtés des Druitt, etc.
Et elle tente désespérément d'attirer l'attention sur son oeuvrette.

Amitiés,
David

[Captain Hook]

And this time Sophie Herfort comes back slyly under an alias, "She Strong", which is a pathetic pun (She=more or less "her", Strong=fort), and she tells us she's a Cypriote citizen...

Bonjour David,

Je ne sais pas si She Strong est vraiment Sophie Herfort, mais je pense que son pseudonyme, She Fort, veut dire "Elle es forte", c'est à dire, Mme Herfort connait son sujet. Qu'elle soit Chypriote, bon, ça m'étonnerait. En tout cas, elle m'a déjà dit que je ne connais pas le français. Peut-être je n'ai rien compris de ce qu'elle a écrit!

À plus,
Capitaine Crochet

[Iain Wilson]

I've only just rejoined these forums after a big hiatus (and then I found out that there was a database crash and my account died) and I've been reading these threads. Man, but is She Strong agressive. I can understand standing up for a point of view, but you completely lose your public when you start insulting those around you...

[Jeff Leahy]

Jeff's just desperate to try to prove me wrong despite the fact that he can never find anything real to complain about it. You might remember Stewart, Ally, Judy, Lyn, Mike and others catching him in making up lies about what was said in the Cornwell thread in order to try to save face. He's just a pathetic, obsessed nobody who wants attention and can only get it by insulting people. Ignore him and he'll wander off and leave us alone for a while just like the last couple of times he tried this nonsense.

Ah!! Then you are reading my posts Norder!!!

Which must means I'm NOT on 'ignore'...

Lets remind everyone what the Oxford English Dictionary says about 'LIE'

and I quote: LIE: An Intensionally false statement.

You claiming that you have me on 'Ignore' clearly must have been..

'An Intensionally false Statement'

I have just proved that you...are a LIAR..

You however have provided no evidence to support your claim against me..

It looks like I've again out witted the Norder..infact thats twice in one day..

Pirate allows himself a master criminal chuckle

Infact I've got a much better idea for the Casebook forum than the 'Ignore' button..

How about a 'theme tune button' that way everytime Norder makes a post casebook plays the theme tune to 'Dads Army'

"Dont tell 'im PIke"

Norder the Captain Mannering of Casebook

or perhaps Hodges.."get that light out"

Sorry just muy sense of humour...

I win again..

Pirate

[DVV]

The same could be said for Sophie and her sockpuppets, really, except they show up every six months or so instead of every couple of years.

And this time Sophie Herfort comes back slyly under an alias, "She Strong", which is a pathetic pun (She=more or less "her", Strong=fort), and she tells us she's a Cypriote citizen...

[Dan Norder]

I'm going to use Cross, as that's what he called himself in regards to this case. Most authors call him that. I similarly call Eddowes "Catherine" instead of "Catharine" because she called herself that and even an official document saying that it was "Catharine" doesn't change that she was known to the case as Catherine and most authors refer to her that way. It seems to me to be ridiculous to refer to him as Lachmere when anyone going to any book to look him up would have to look for Cross instead. We also don't call Lawende "Lavender," and so forth and so on.

Jeff's just desperate to try to prove me wrong despite the fact that he can never find anything real to complain about it. You might remember Stewart, Ally, Judy, Lyn, Mike and others catching him in making up lies about what was said in the Cornwell thread in order to try to save face. He's just a pathetic, obsessed nobody who wants attention and can only get it by insulting people. Ignore him and he'll wander off and leave us alone for a while just like the last couple of times he tried this nonsense.

The same could be said for Sophie and her sockpuppets, really, except they show up every six months or so instead of every couple of years.

[DVV]

[QUOTE=Pirate Jack;33939]
I think it fair to suggest we should wait until the book is published in English. No doubt it will contain some errors, almost evreything on a subject this big and this controversial does...often it comes down to a point of view.


/QUOTE]

Hi Pirate,
oh no, it's not a matter of "some errors" or "point of view". Just have a look at the thread Police officials/ McNaghten-the theory/post 19, and you will understand everything.
Maybe, when it will be translated into English, the author will try to add corrections, thanks to the "*******" website she has ridiculously insulted...

Amitiés,
David

Charles Lechmere (aka "Charles Cross&quot

My understanding (without, I confess, taking the time to go read the article you mention and confirm) is the Lechmere is still the man we know as Cross, correct? This is hardly therefore a glaring error on Mr Norder's part, merely perhaps the habitual use of what was until comparitively recently a known name. Furthermore, if we are arguing accuracy to the primary documents - as Mr Evans, of whom you are a strong supporter, would urge us - then Cross is the correct name to use.

"... if we are arguing accuracy to the primary documents ... then Cross is the correct name to use."

I am in total disagreement !!!

Thanks to the efforts of Michael Connor and Chris Scott, we know:

- That this person appeared as "Lechmere" on his 1849 birth certificate, 1871 marriage certificate and 1920 death certificate; as well as census returns of 1851, 1871, 1881, 1891 and 1901(?)

- That his wife and eight living children (of 1891) all appeared as "Lechmere" in various census returns

- That a ninth child (1888-1890) appeared as "Lechmere" on her birth and death certificates

- That this person's only known appearances as "Cross", the name of his stepfather from age eight, occurred in the census returns of 1861 (age 11), and during the investigation of Polly Nichols's murder (age 38)

Charles Lechmere (aka "Charles Cross") !!!

"Cross" was an alias !!! An explicable alias; but still an alias !!!

We do not know the reasoning, behind which Charles Lechmere chose to identify himself as "Charles Cross", throughout the course of the investigation of Polly Nichols's murder. But the fact that he chose to do so, is not just cause for him to be known to history by that alias.

His name was Charles Lechmere !!! Period !!!

We don't refer to Catherine Eddowes by her chosen alias: "Mary Ann Kelly". Neither should we refer to Charles Lechmere by his chosen alias: "Charles Cross".

Again; his name was Charles Lechmere !!! We now know that to be the case, and we should act accordingly.

For the time being, however; the reference 'Charles Lechmere, aka "Charles Cross"' should alleviate any possible confusion.

Derek Osborne (Ripperana No. 37, July 2001) discovered a Charles Lechmere in residence at 22 Doveton Street, Mile End Old Town; as recorded in the 1891 census. But he merely hypothesized that Lechmere and "Cross" might have been one and the same. His findings and hypotheses regarding Lechmere then faded into obscurity.

Michael Connor (Ripperologist No. 87, January 2008), in the absence of any knowledge of Osborne's work, delved much more deeply into the background and post-1891 life of Charles Lechmere; and concluded (quite rightly) that Lechmere and "Cross" most probably were one and the same.

Chris Scott put the icing on the cake.

If we do not take the progressive route, and refer to people, places and events in accordance with recent discoveries; then we will remain stagnant and go nowhere in our quest.

Also; if we show blatant disregard for the work of Michael Connor and Chris Scott, and allow it - like Derek Osborne's - to fade into obscurity, then this whole saga will be repeated in seven-or-eight years, when someone else 'discovers' Charles Lechmere, of 22 Doveton Street, Mile End Old Town.


Colin


P.S. Click the quote prompt (white arrow) to take this discussion to the appropriate thread.

"... if we are arguing accuracy to the primary documents ... then Cross is the correct name to use."

I am in total disagreement !!!

[DVV]

Some fun more?

What is admirable with herfort's book is that you are never disappointed.
Chapter after chapter, she makes you laugh.
Up to the end, and even...after the end.

Look at the bibliography:

"Stewart (P. Evans) et Rumbelow (Donald), JtR...
Stewart (P. Evans) et Skinner (Keith), Letters...
Stewart (P. Evans) et Skinner (Keith), The ultimate..."

Don't you know P. Evans Stewart, the famous author of "Ripper the Jack"?
Great!