Francis Spurzheim Craig

[Debra A]

As a very unscientific experiment I searched the 1891 census for 'private detective' and it returned 31 results. I clicked on about a third of them to make sure that it was the correct occupation, and it was. Of the ones I clicked, nearly all had 'guild' written in pencil beside 'private detective.' I don't know what that means.

There may have been others under 'private investigator,' 'enquiry agent' etc etc.

Using Private Inquiry* and Private enquiry" picks up a few also, Robert.
The 'guild' thing is new on me.

[Hatchett]

Hi JM,

That's fair play, isnt it.

But lets at least give the guy a chance to fully explain himself first.

Best wishes.

[Debra A]

As usual Debra-thanks for the response.

While the story does seem to jibe, im starting to think that if Mary Kelly had been recently married to a reporter that it would have come out in her back story, given how her past relationships ( Flemming, Morganstone etc) came to light--or perhaps she wanted to keep it secret for some reason.

When was Davies divorce?

Thanks , Abby.
The divorce proceedings are headed 1886 on Ancestry. The marriage was 1884. The adultery or prostitution began in 1885 according to the divorce petition.

[Robert]

As a very unscientific experiment I searched the 1891 census for 'private detective' and it returned 31 results. I clicked on about a third of them to make sure that it was the correct occupation, and it was. Of the ones I clicked, nearly all had 'guild' written in pencil beside 'private detective.' I don't know what that means.

There may have been others under 'private investigator,' 'enquiry agent' etc etc.

[jmenges]

Hi All,

I think ( and hope) that some of these questions will be explained in the book.

Best wishes.

And if some of these questions are not explained in the book, I will be asking the author this Sunday when he sits down with myself, Paul Begg and Robert McLaughlin for a panel discussion for Rippercast. So I'm keeping an eye on these threads.

JM

[Hatchett]

Hi,

Charles Field set up what I believe is the first Enquiry Office in the UK in 1832. So the industry of the Private Dectective would have been well mature by 1888.

Best wishes.

[Hatchett]

Hi All,

I think ( and hope) that some of these questions will be explained in the book.

Best wishes.

[Penhalion]

How common were private detectives in the mid 1880's? I understood that one of the unique things about Sherlock Holmes as a character was that he was not a police detective- a consulting/private detective. I believe that Pinkerton's only operated in America at the time.

Although you could probably hire somebody to follow someone or go out and ask questions, I'd hesitate to call them private detectives.

I would also be interested in the documentation on the PI's searching for MJK/EDW- is it found in his papers? Does it indicate he found her?

[Bridewell]

i am miles behind all you on here(but love the subject of JTR),one question after watching todays bit on sky news,how would the author know that MJK ex had hired private detectives to try and find her?

thanks for any help

I guess she would know if she met one of them and he identified himself.

[dixon9]

i am miles behind all you on here(but love the subject of JTR),one question after watching todays bit on sky news,how would the author know that MJK ex had hired private detectives to try and find her?

thanks for any help

[Abby Normal]

Hi Abby
I must have written that a while back when I was initially intrigued by this whole story...the story (told by the divorce papers)of one woman's descent into East End prostitution from a respectable Welsh family, via a West End brothel and ultimately disappearing into thin air about the same time MJK appeared in the Ratcliffe Highway/Pennington St area. It's the right pattern, the right feel, I can't describe it more than that.

..Much research later with some preview chapters of the book to go on...I'm less convinced, I'd say.
It's difficult to pinpoint anything specific at this time as, to be fair, I haven't read the whole book yet and the author's take on things like the organ removal and mutilations will be an invaluable contribution, given his professional experience, I feel.
But I have reservations about certain things in Wynne H W Davies theory, let's say. Most of them related to whether or not some of the main characters in the story really were brothel keepers and what their actual address was in 1885-89.
I'm away on holiday the day the book is released on Kindle here in the UK but I hope to be able to download it a few days later and either satisfy my niggles entirely (ie they have been fully addressed in the book) or then I will post questions ...like everyone else I guess!
Debs

As usual Debra-thanks for the response.

While the story does seem to jibe, im starting to think that if Mary Kelly had been recently married to a reporter that it would have come out in her back story, given how her past relationships ( Flemming, Morganstone etc) came to light--or perhaps she wanted to keep it secret for some reason.

When was Davies divorce?

[dixon9]

author on sky news now,interesting listen

[Robert]

It's called The Real Mary Kelly.

[Bridewell]

Just for the record (and to save myself a trawl through all 21 pages if I'm honest!), what's the title of this book please?

[Debra A]

Hi Debra
You mentioned earlier that there was something research related that left you gobsmacked. Are you comfortable elaborating on what it was at this point? I highly value your opinion.

Hi Abby
I must have written that a while back when I was initially intrigued by this whole story...the story (told by the divorce papers)of one woman's descent into East End prostitution from a respectable Welsh family, via a West End brothel and ultimately disappearing into thin air about the same time MJK appeared in the Ratcliffe Highway/Pennington St area. It's the right pattern, the right feel, I can't describe it more than that.

..Much research later with some preview chapters of the book to go on...I'm less convinced, I'd say.
It's difficult to pinpoint anything specific at this time as, to be fair, I haven't read the whole book yet and the author's take on things like the organ removal and mutilations will be an invaluable contribution, given his professional experience, I feel.
But I have reservations about certain things in Wynne H W Davies theory, let's say. Most of them related to whether or not some of the main characters in the story really were brothel keepers and what their actual address was in 1885-89.
I'm away on holiday the day the book is released on Kindle here in the UK but I hope to be able to download it a few days later and either satisfy my niggles entirely (ie they have been fully addressed in the book) or then I will post questions ...like everyone else I guess!
Debs