Suspect battle: Cross/Lechmere vs. Hutchinson

[Elamarna]

In the inquest, Robert Paul said:

The clothes were disarranged, and I helped to pull them down. Before he did so I detected a slight movement as of breathing, but very faint

This phrase alone incriminates Lechmere, since the Endotracheal of the the victim was recently severed, and still there was a trace of air movement becaose of the altered pressure of her chest. that means she couldn't have been killed more than a couple of minutes.

He also said she was dead and cold.

Such does no more than say the murder occurred within a few minutes, something I and many others have no problem with.

However that does no mean Lechmere has to be the killer, that is what you refuse to even consider.


regards

[Rainbow]

In the inquest, Robert Paul said:

The clothes were disarranged, and I helped to pull them down. Before I did so I detected a slight movement as of breathing, but very faint

This phrase alone incriminates Lechmere, since the Endotracheal of the victim was recently severed, and still there was a trace of air movement because of the altered pressure of her chest. that means she couldn't have been killed more than a couple of minutes.

[Elamarna]

not after Paul had seen him with the victim.

something many seems not to understand, serial killers have previous ideas what should they do if someone saw them red handed and the things get worse

Lechmere has no place to flee, he has no choice, and he did something that had thought about it before..


not just running like what a casual criminal does

You really cannot comprehend that Lechmore is not proven to be the killer, to not be able to see there are other options means that you are unable to debate in any meaningful way.



steve

[Elamarna]

Originally Posted by Elamarna View Post
.
"No one heard Eddowes in Mitre Square and night watchman Morris was far closer to the murder spot than Malshaw was to the one in Bucks Row."



Rainbow:

"this comparsion is funny"

Why is it funny?

It is accurate.
If Morris had his door open as he often did he would have seen the attack or at least had the opportunity to.





Rainbow:

"again we are not talking about just hearing voices here, we are talking about seeing any person, and there were 4 persons around this spot beside Paul"




None of the police were present later than approx 3.15am.

Why would they see anything which occurred some 20-25 minutes later and which probably took only a few minutes in duration, not the nine you claimed; but failed to explain,

To suggest they would have seen anything when they were not present defies logic.




The nightwatchman did not see Paul or Lechmere; why should he have seen anybody else.


Rainbow:

"There is no place for the phantom killer to escape, this IS the point, unless you want the killer to sleep in buck's row"



Yes there is!

Do Lechmere and Paul pass Neil? or any other Police man until they see Mizen?

No!

Why would a "phantom," as you insist on saying have been seen by Neil given he must have left before Lechmere and Paul.



Elamarna:

"Neil was not there at the same time as Paul and Lechmere, there were several possible means of exit."



Rainbow:

"see above"



See what?

A grossly incorrect statement that he could not pass out of the street,

If one is going to post such things at least check the actual times people were in a place and check a map for the period too.




Steve

[Rainbow]

If he could get passed Mizen he could get passed Neil.
Columbo

not after Paul had seen him with the victim.

something many seems not to understand, serial killers have previous ideas what should they do if someone saw them red handed and the things get worse

Lechmere has no place to flee, he has no choice, and he did something that had thought about it before..


not just running like what a casual criminal does

[Rainbow]

So we can limit the time of death/attack to no more than about 30minutes before he finds it. Good.






Yes he was certainly far enough away to not hear an attack.






Yes.





No one heard Eddowes in Mitre Square and night watchman Morris was far closer to the murder spot than Malshaw was to the one in Bucks Row.


this comparison is funny

again we are not talking about just hearing voices here, we are talking about seeing any person, and there were 4 persons guarding around this spot beside Paul



Fits with Neil does. does not pinpoint attack time other than saying he noticed nothing until 3.45.

However would he have noticed anything anyway?
He did not patrol Bucks Row?

There is no place for the phantom killer to escape, this IS the point, unless you want the killer to sleep in buck's row




Again about half hour before Neil.





No if he was not Lechmere he had already gone.

Neil was not there at the same time as Paul and Lechmere, there were several possible means of exit.


see above


Such a comment is pointless. And ignore the facts set out above.


Three of observations are made about the scene some 30 or so minutes before the discovery of the body.

They do however allow us to discard ideas that the body was there for a long time, but they do not narrow the window for attack any more than that.

The night watchmans report can be directly compared to that of Morris in Mitre Square, he heard nothing too.

realy funny

Interestingly it seems Malshaw he did not hear the actual attack or Lechmere and Paul either.

None of that pinpoints the attack time. it certainly does not prove it was Lechmere.




Steve

no place to escape

[Elamarna]

Yesterday morning I was proceeding down Buck's-row, Whitechapel, going towards Brady-street. There was not a soul about

There was not a soul about at this end of the row and whitechapel and Brady street.

And?

I do not see the point you are trying to make?



Steve

[Rainbow]

Yesterday morning I was proceeding down Buck's-row, Whitechapel, going towards Brady-street. There was not a soul about

There was not a soul about at this end of the row and whitechapel and Brady street.

[Elamarna]

I think that depends on where the carman was at the time. If you can prove he was elsewhere, then yes, it creates problems.

Fisherman

Agreed.


As the expert on Lechmere normally online, I am sure you have some idea of his normal work hours, or am I wrong in that assumption?

Am I right in thinking the TOD by Phillips is far more in keeping with Lechmere performing the attack?




steve

[Elamarna]

There was no place for that phantom killer except to fly with two wings in the sky, although I will still dought this possibility or it will be heard flying too

John Neil, police-constable said in the inquest:

Yesterday morning I was proceeding down Buck's-row, Whitechapel, going towards Brady-street. There was not a soul about. I had been round there half an hour previously, and I saw no one then.

So we can limit the time of death/attack to no more than about 30minutes before he finds it. Good.

There was a pool of blood just where her neck was lying. It was running from the wound in her neck.

The Coroner: Did you hear any noise that night?

Witness: No; I heard nothing. The farthest I had been that night was just through the Whitechapel-road and up Baker's-row. I was never far away from the spot.

Yes he was certainly far enough away to not hear an attack.

and we know he discovered the body of the victim soon after Lechmere and Paul went searching for a policeman.

Yes.

Alfred Malshaw , a night watchman in Winthorpe-street, had also heard no cries or noise. In a straight line he was about thirty yards from the spot where the deceased was found.

No one heard Eddowes in Mitre Square and night watchman Morris was far closer to the murder spot than Malshaw was to the one in Bucks Row.

Police-constable John Thail stated that the nearest point on his beat to Buck's- row was Brady-street. He passed the end every thirty minutes on the Thursday night, and nothing attracted his attention until 3.45 a.m.

Fits with Neil does. does not pinpoint attack time other than saying he noticed nothing until 3.45.

However would he have noticed anything anyway?
He did not patrol Bucks Row?

Sergeant Kerby passed also down Buck's Row and saw nothing.

Again about half hour before Neil.

this side of the the row was closed by the police constable Neil for the phantom killer to flee, and the other side of the row was closed too by Paul, and the blood was still running from the wound on the victim's neck.

No if he was not Lechmere he had already gone.

Neil was not there at the same time as Paul and Lechmere, there were several possible means of exit.

if he was not Lechmere, then he must had flown in the sky

Such a comment is pointless. And ignore the facts set out above.


Three of observations are made about the scene some 30 or so minutes before the discovery of the body.

They do however allow us to discard ideas that the body was there for a long time, but they do not narrow the window for attack any more than that.

The night watchmans report can be directly compared to that of Morris in Mitre Square, he heard nothing too.

Interestingly it seems Malshaw he did not hear the actual attack or Lechmere and Paul either.

None of that pinpoints the attack time. it certainly does not prove it was Lechmere.



Steve

[Rainbow]

It could've been a random doctor, or a random suicide, mad Jewish person, etc. And yes IF you saw Bury in Buck's row before or after the discovery of the body then yes he would be a better suspect then Lechmere, who has no record of violence towards anyone as far as we know.

Columbo

What a BIG 'if' you have there Columbo...

If Bury was in Buck's row at the time of the murder, then we don't need even his record of violence..


It is clear that you don't understand what serial killers are, you even don't seem to understand what was Jack the Ripper M.O to think Ellen was also like the other victims

Serial killers don't sleep with knives under their heads, don't hit and slap their wives in public and then kill them and go to the police...
!

[Columbo]

No one had seen a soul.

He was trapped like a mouse in a tube, between John Neil the police-constable from one side and Robert Paul from the other side, while the blood was still running from the victim's neck.

No he wasn't trapped at all. I'm not sure you understood my initial response. If he could get passed Mizen he could get passed Neil. This has been argued enough times that a rehash here is UN-necessary.

Columbo

[Harry D]

Off-topic: Anyone else find it sketchy how Fisherman & Rainbow appear to come and go at the same time? I'm not saying, I'm just saying.

[Columbo]

Far better than a random murderer who killed his wife like chapman or bury

and far better than a random mad jew who was locked in an asylum like Kosmenski, Levy, Hayam, Cohen, Kamnsky

and far better than a random doctor .......
or a random suicider who happened to kill himself that time...
or a random royal family member.

.

It could've been a random doctor, or a random suicide, mad Jewish person, etc. And yes if you saw Bury in Buck's row before or after the discovery of the body then yes he would be a better suspect then Lechmere, who has no record of violence towards anyone as far as we know.

Columbo

[Harry D]

And all of this means that it was not established that the murders were silent.
Which, if I am not mistaken, was your point...?

There are insufficient sightings or sounds of the killer, therefore Rainbow's point is moot. The chances of another killer dispatching Nichols without anyone hearing or seeing a thing are not out of the ordinary.