William Grant Grainger and censorship

[Nemo]

Thanks Chris

[Chris]

Chris, do you know what the RD and CB represent after the addresses given in the death certificate from 1929? (post 81)

Based on online sources, I think they stand for Rural District and County Borough.

[Nemo]

Chris, do you know what the RD and CB represent after the addresses given in the death certificate from 1929? (post 81)

I think there is a good possibility that certificate relates to our William Grainger going by the adress being about 300yards from Cockpit Lane and that the cause of death may be related to his ongoing illness described as an "evil on neck" in one document - possibly scrofula

The only thing going against it being him is that, as noted by Deb, he is listed as a clerk after his imprisonment in 1895 so him returing to seafaring based labouring might be unlikely circa 1929 when he was in his late 60s

However, everyone considers a certain place their home territory and I see no reason why he wouldn't return to his old haunts to live

[DVV]

Not sure if it adds anything to the debate, but thought it might be of some small interest!

Hi Janner, of course it is. And not only for Grainger.

[Janner]

Hi all - without wishing to labour the point about eye colour, I was reminded of this thread as I looked through my grandfathers service record; at various points throughout his career his physical description goes as follows:

Complexion: "Sallow" Eyes: "Hazel"

Complexion: "Dark" Eyes: "Hazel"

Complexion: "Fresh" Eyes: "Grey"

Not sure if it adds anything to the debate, but thought it might be of some small interest!

[Carol]

Hi All,

Just read through the posts about differing eye colour and have been reminded of my own experience with regards to my brother's eye colour. Up until about 16 months ago when we were staying with him in England I would have said he had DEFINITELY got blue eyes. However, he actually has more green than blue. I was really surprised. So surprised that I had a good look at my own! But there's no green in mine, unfortunately. My eyes are just dark blue. I would really love to have green eyes!

Carol

[Cogidubnus]

Forget it Debs...they reckoned at Sunday School (yes I went!) when the good lord handed out talents, I was probably not over-endowed with tact...I doubt things have improved overly in the many intervening year! For my part I too apologise!

All the best

Dave

[Debra A]

Hi all,
I think there are a lot of genuine reasons why Grainger's eye colour may have been recorded differently in two sets of records and the only way to therefore prove they are the same man would be to look at the matches in other details (even other parts of the decriptions like height) of the other records relating to Grant/Grainger. There seems to me, personally , to be a distinct similarity between these two men in terms of age, DOB, known locations, use of same alias of Grainger/Grant (only the PMG in 1895 published the fact that William Grant was really named Grainger), occupation and several other things.

Dave, I was probably a little hard on you and I apologise for that. I was just trying to get the above across and feeling as equally frustrated as you.

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Debs

Thanks for that...with regard to Ballyhooly Road and Cockpit Lane I now stand much enlightened! How I missed that I don't know (bangs head on keyboard in frustration)...and your suggestion re the Irish records of eye colour now seems far more likely...apologies!

All the best

Dave

[Fleetwood Mac]

Sorry...I'm really not taking the pee, but undoubtedly Hazel (You couldn't honestly say blue)

Dave

Dave,

I can see what you're saying here.

But the flaw in your point is that not everyone has clearly defined eyes in terms of colour.

Were it me, no one could mistake my eye colour. They're bright blue (unless I've had a skinful the night before and then they go a sort of bluey grey) and could never be mistaken for hazel.

Were it my Mother, then her eye colour is to opinion as she has various little bits of colour in her eyes. And, this is true as opposed to just sayung something for the sake of argument: she thinks here eyes are largely blue; I think they're largely hazel.

The point I'm making is that I seem to have one eye colour - a navy blue - that could never be mistaken for anything else - my Mother has lots of specks of different colours in here eyes making an opinion on her eye colour open to debate.

[Debra A]

Sorry...I'm really not taking the pee, but undoubtedly Hazel (You couldn't honestly say blue)

Dave

Yet some of the people in the three pages of answers following the query did say just that!

[Debra A]

Sorry about the delay in replying, but I wasn't about yesterday (it being my birthday!)...I'm genuinely sorry that this thread should be the cause of tension between us.

No tension, just bewilderment on my part to be honest.

Since the eye colour is consistently described as blue in the English records and, as you now advise, consistently hazel in the Irish records, hopefully you will now understand why I had misgivings.

I do understand your point. His eyes are consistently blue in the English records and hazel in this Irish ones. If there was ambiguity on colour then I'd expect to see blue appearing the Irish records occasionally, this is why I also wrote that nothing appears to have changed in the Irish records-the distinguishing marks column always reads exactly the same, so I will ask again-Maybe the Irish records were just copied over after an initial mistake in eye colour being recorded? What is the problem with that idea?

With regard to Ballyhooly Road and Cockpit Lane, I try my best to follow these threads, but alas these references leave me mystified...are they perhaps unpublished research? Just where do these addresses come in please, as I can't find them on this thread or in any others I've seen ...am I missing something?

The Cockpit Lane is part of research done by the poster Nemo. Grainger gave this address in the Cork workhouse ( a place we know from contemporary sources the suspect Grainger frequented)

Ballyhooley Rd is mentioned in this post by Chris P- Grainger's parents were living there where he and other siblings were christened. It appears in Graingers earlier Irish Prison register entries c late 1870s

http://forum.casebook.org/showpost.php?p=185170&postcount=67

Barrackton is mentioned in this post, again excellent research by Chris Phillips, it isn't certain this is the death of Grainger's mother but it's also an address that appears in Grainger's prison records later in time:

http://forum.casebook.org/showpost.php?p=188033&postcount=80

[Cogidubnus]

Following on from what Curious and Sally were saying:
What colour is this eye?

Sorry...I'm really not taking the pee, but undoubtedly Hazel (You couldn't honestly say blue)

Dave

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Debs

Sorry about the delay in replying, but I wasn't about yesterday (it being my birthday!)...I'm genuinely sorry that this thread should be the cause of tension between us.

Since the eye colour is consistently described as blue in the English records and, as you now advise, consistently hazel in the Irish records, hopefully you will now understand why I had misgivings.

With regard to Ballyhooly Road and Cockpit Lane, I try my best to follow these threads, but alas these references leave me mystified...are they perhaps unpublished research? Just where do these addresses come in please, as I can't find them on this thread or in any others I've seen ...am I missing something?

Just to make things doubly clear, there is, and never has been, any question of my treating yourself or your research, either lightly or disrespectfully. As I've stated previously, I firmly believe the future of "Ripperology" lies in the stalwart efforts of dedicated researchers such as yourself.

All the best

Dave

[Sally]

Mine are very similar - look different in different lights. You see the problem.

'Hazel' is a highly subjective descriptive term.