Tell me who JTR was

[pinkmoon]

Hello Pinkmoon ..

yes I guess evidence is too strong a word but I do rather like his letter stating he was attending a clinic in Whitechapel on the 8th sept , the day of the Chapman murder . along with a certain Mary Nichols showing up in one of his patient registers along with his experimental work pertaining to diseases of the uterus , his religious background ( Leviticus 7 ) and the horrific similarity's to Kellys murder scene . His probable workhouse bolt hole, under 5 mins from every crime scene , actually seconds from Bucks row ! Not to mention the Knife he kept amongst his prized possessions , which sits perfectly well with every suggestion of knife used by the killer . So yes pinkmoon , this is all far from evidence , But is a lot more than we have against most other top 5 candidates .

One other thing , all of the victims visited the workhouse surgery in the week leading up to their deaths ..

moonbegger .

Hi moonbegger,interesting points however the most important question I think with these murders is why did they stop when viewing Mary Kelly's photo there is no doubt this person was a million light years from normal I can't just see him retiring a lot of people ignore this when proposing suspects.

[Hatchett]

Hi,

My guess is that killer was someone who lived within the district. His invisibility was because he was known and expected to be seen walking those streets. It is because of this familarity, and his seemingly harmless personality that the prostitutes felt safe with him.

If you take that stance, then the most likely suspects ( from the many who have been pinpointed over thCe years) are Cross, Joe Barnet, Flemming, Chapman, Cohen, and a thousand others, named and un named.

Best wishes,

[pinkmoon]

Would someone who was up to no good themselves in the early hours when these crimes happend come forward to the police if they saw anything suspicious I very much doubt it.

[Hatchett]

Hi

Not at all, Pinkmoon

[moonbegger]

Hi moonbegger,interesting points however the most important question I think with these murders is why did they stop when viewing Mary Kelly's photo there is no doubt this person was a million light years from normal I can't just see him retiring a lot of people ignore this when proposing suspects.

Yes pinkmoon , that's always going to be a point of contention with any living suspect still at liberty after the murders ceased , but there in " Leviticus 5 -7 " lies atonement for previous sins .. And it is chillingly uncanny , the similarity between Kellys scattered remains and the passage from the Bible ..

"As a penalty for the sin they have committed, they must bring to the Lord a female lamb or goat from the flock as a sin offering, and the priest shall make atonement for them for their sin. He is to wring its head from its neck, not dividing it completely, and is to splash some of the blood of the sin offering against the side of the altar; the rest of the blood must be drained out at the base of the altar. It is a sin offering. The priest shall then offer the other as a burnt offering in the prescribed way and make atonement for them for the sin they have committed, and they will be forgiven"

"In the place where they kill the burnt offering shall they kill the trespass offering: and the blood thereof shall he sprinkle round about upon the altar.
And he shall offer of it all the fat thereof; the rump, and the fat that covereth the inwards, And the two kidneys, and the fat that is on them, which is by the flanks, and the caul that is above the liver, with the kidneys, it shall he take away:
And the priest shall burn them upon the altar for an offering made by fire unto the Lord: it is a trespass offering."

Spooky eh ...

Moonbegger .

[pinkmoon]

Yes pinkmoon , that's always going to be a point of contention with any living suspect still at liberty after the murders ceased , but there in " Leviticus 5 -7 " lies atonement for previous sins .. And it is chillingly uncanny , the similarity between Kellys scattered remains and the passage from the Bible ..

"As a penalty for the sin they have committed, they must bring to the Lord a female lamb or goat from the flock as a sin offering, and the priest shall make atonement for them for their sin. He is to wring its head from its neck, not dividing it completely, and is to splash some of the blood of the sin offering against the side of the altar; the rest of the blood must be drained out at the base of the altar. It is a sin offering. The priest shall then offer the other as a burnt offering in the prescribed way and make atonement for them for the sin they have committed, and they will be forgiven"

"In the place where they kill the burnt offering shall they kill the trespass offering: and the blood thereof shall he sprinkle round about upon the altar.
And he shall offer of it all the fat thereof; the rump, and the fat that covereth the inwards, And the two kidneys, and the fat that is on them, which is by the flanks, and the caul that is above the liver, with the kidneys, it shall he take away:
And the priest shall burn them upon the altar for an offering made by fire unto the Lord: it is a trespass offering."

Spooky eh ...

Moonbegger .

Spooky in fact it puts the willies up me but back to the main point why did our killer stop killing he simply didn't just ride of into the sunset or retire to keep bees somewhere or pop back home and tell everyone he's been feeling a bit run down lately but now he's fine .

[Hatchett]

Hi,

He could have died. He could have been incarcerated for some other crime. He could have been caged in an asylum. He could have been murdered. He could have moved away and carried on killing. If his brain went he could even have carried on killing Coles etc.

Best wishes.

[moonbegger]

The fact that we don't know deems all things possible .. Kelly may have simply been his atonement .. done , dusted , and forgiven ! it can happen .

[Scott Nelson]

Moonbegger and Pinkmoon are discoursing. I wonder what's going to happen next.

[pinkmoon]

Moonbegger and Pinkmoon are discoursing. I wonder what's going to happen next.

The way we are going with our ground breaking theories we will have this case solved by the weekend

[moonbegger]

Yes pinkmoon , that's always going to be a point of contention with any living suspect still at liberty after the murders ceased , but there in " Leviticus 5 -7 " lies atonement for previous sins .. And it is chillingly uncanny , the similarity between Kellys scattered remains and the passage from the Bible ..

"As a penalty for the sin they have committed, they must bring to the Lord a female lamb or goat from the flock as a sin offering, and the priest shall make atonement for them for their sin. He is to wring its head from its neck, not dividing it completely, and is to splash some of the blood of the sin offering against the side of the altar; the rest of the blood must be drained out at the base of the altar. It is a sin offering. The priest shall then offer the other as a burnt offering in the prescribed way and make atonement for them for the sin they have committed, and they will be forgiven"

"In the place where they kill the burnt offering shall they kill the trespass offering: and the blood thereof shall he sprinkle round about upon the altar.
And he shall offer of it all the fat thereof; the rump, and the fat that covereth the inwards, And the two kidneys, and the fat that is on them, which is by the flanks, and the caul that is above the liver, with the kidneys, it shall he take away:
And the priest shall burn them upon the altar for an offering made by fire unto the Lord: it is a trespass offering."

Spooky eh ...

Moonbegger .

A lunar eclipse , one may suspect

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
We have heard a lot about how serial killers carry on, until caught, die, or incarcerated, which is basically sound however..
Lets say Mary Kelly was the last victim , because her death, was the end of s murder spree, and it was her that enraged him to kill other women[ for some reason]..
He may have killed the person he held responsible for his actions, and upon her death, the need to continue was gone, by killing her , he had rid himself of guilt, as it was all her fault, and after that devil in him was no more...
Possible folks ..albeit we are going along the Jilted lover theory involving people like Barnett.
Regards Richard.

[GUT]

G'day Richard

He may have killed the person he held responsible for his actions, and upon her death, the need to continue was gone, by killing her , he had rid himself of guilt, as it was all her fault, and after that devil in him was no more...
Possible folks ..albeit we are going along the Jilted lover theory involving people like Barnett.
Regards Richard.

Possible, but likely?

I just don't buy the idea that he did it to scare Mary off the game, I can buy the mistaken identity, or could if there were only 1 or 2.

[richardnunweek]

Hi. Gut.
One can understand Paley's reasoning in suspecting Barnett, by his own admission he used to read all the gory bits about the murders to Kelly, which could imply that he was out to frighten her from contemplating going on the streets.
We do not know what Barnett was like as a person, his state of mind, some people can hide insanity well, it is also convenient that he left her just over a week prior to her death, and he called on her on the eve of the 8th..hearing the words from her regular sleepover.''I shall not be seeing you again tonight then Mary Jane''
Its all rather 'B movie' material,,but this case is far from straightforward ,that is why we are still at it today.
Regards Richard.

[GUT]

G'day Richard

Hi. Gut.
One can understand Paley's reasoning in suspecting Barnett, by his own admission he used to read all the gory bits about the murders to Kelly, which could imply that he was out to frighten her from contemplating going on the streets.

Regards Richard.

My understanding was that he said MJK would ask him to read to her about the murders.

We do not know what Barnett was like as a person, his state of mind, some people can hide insanity well, it is also convenient that he left her just over a week prior to her death, and he called on her on the eve of the 8th..hearing the words from her regular sleepover.''I shall not be seeing you again tonight then Mary Jane''
Its all rather 'B movie' material,,but this case is far from straightforward ,that is why we are still at it today.

I agree that iit is "B" movie stuff.