Tell me who JTR was

[pinkmoon]

Moonbegger and Pinkmoon are discoursing. I wonder what's going to happen next.

The way we are going with our ground breaking theories we will have this case solved by the weekend

[Scott Nelson]

Moonbegger and Pinkmoon are discoursing. I wonder what's going to happen next.

[moonbegger]

The fact that we don't know deems all things possible .. Kelly may have simply been his atonement .. done , dusted , and forgiven ! it can happen .

[Hatchett]

Hi,

He could have died. He could have been incarcerated for some other crime. He could have been caged in an asylum. He could have been murdered. He could have moved away and carried on killing. If his brain went he could even have carried on killing Coles etc.

Best wishes.

[pinkmoon]

Yes pinkmoon , that's always going to be a point of contention with any living suspect still at liberty after the murders ceased , but there in " Leviticus 5 -7 " lies atonement for previous sins .. And it is chillingly uncanny , the similarity between Kellys scattered remains and the passage from the Bible ..

"As a penalty for the sin they have committed, they must bring to the Lord a female lamb or goat from the flock as a sin offering, and the priest shall make atonement for them for their sin. He is to wring its head from its neck, not dividing it completely, and is to splash some of the blood of the sin offering against the side of the altar; the rest of the blood must be drained out at the base of the altar. It is a sin offering. The priest shall then offer the other as a burnt offering in the prescribed way and make atonement for them for the sin they have committed, and they will be forgiven"

"In the place where they kill the burnt offering shall they kill the trespass offering: and the blood thereof shall he sprinkle round about upon the altar.
And he shall offer of it all the fat thereof; the rump, and the fat that covereth the inwards, And the two kidneys, and the fat that is on them, which is by the flanks, and the caul that is above the liver, with the kidneys, it shall he take away:
And the priest shall burn them upon the altar for an offering made by fire unto the Lord: it is a trespass offering."

Spooky eh ...

Moonbegger .

Spooky in fact it puts the willies up me but back to the main point why did our killer stop killing he simply didn't just ride of into the sunset or retire to keep bees somewhere or pop back home and tell everyone he's been feeling a bit run down lately but now he's fine .

[moonbegger]

Hi moonbegger,interesting points however the most important question I think with these murders is why did they stop when viewing Mary Kelly's photo there is no doubt this person was a million light years from normal I can't just see him retiring a lot of people ignore this when proposing suspects.

Yes pinkmoon , that's always going to be a point of contention with any living suspect still at liberty after the murders ceased , but there in " Leviticus 5 -7 " lies atonement for previous sins .. And it is chillingly uncanny , the similarity between Kellys scattered remains and the passage from the Bible ..

"As a penalty for the sin they have committed, they must bring to the Lord a female lamb or goat from the flock as a sin offering, and the priest shall make atonement for them for their sin. He is to wring its head from its neck, not dividing it completely, and is to splash some of the blood of the sin offering against the side of the altar; the rest of the blood must be drained out at the base of the altar. It is a sin offering. The priest shall then offer the other as a burnt offering in the prescribed way and make atonement for them for the sin they have committed, and they will be forgiven"

"In the place where they kill the burnt offering shall they kill the trespass offering: and the blood thereof shall he sprinkle round about upon the altar.
And he shall offer of it all the fat thereof; the rump, and the fat that covereth the inwards, And the two kidneys, and the fat that is on them, which is by the flanks, and the caul that is above the liver, with the kidneys, it shall he take away:
And the priest shall burn them upon the altar for an offering made by fire unto the Lord: it is a trespass offering."

Spooky eh ...

Moonbegger .

[Hatchett]

Hi

Not at all, Pinkmoon

[pinkmoon]

Would someone who was up to no good themselves in the early hours when these crimes happend come forward to the police if they saw anything suspicious I very much doubt it.

[Hatchett]

Hi,

My guess is that killer was someone who lived within the district. His invisibility was because he was known and expected to be seen walking those streets. It is because of this familarity, and his seemingly harmless personality that the prostitutes felt safe with him.

If you take that stance, then the most likely suspects ( from the many who have been pinpointed over thCe years) are Cross, Joe Barnet, Flemming, Chapman, Cohen, and a thousand others, named and un named.

Best wishes,

[pinkmoon]

Hello Pinkmoon ..

yes I guess evidence is too strong a word but I do rather like his letter stating he was attending a clinic in Whitechapel on the 8th sept , the day of the Chapman murder . along with a certain Mary Nichols showing up in one of his patient registers along with his experimental work pertaining to diseases of the uterus , his religious background ( Leviticus 7 ) and the horrific similarity's to Kellys murder scene . His probable workhouse bolt hole, under 5 mins from every crime scene , actually seconds from Bucks row ! Not to mention the Knife he kept amongst his prized possessions , which sits perfectly well with every suggestion of knife used by the killer . So yes pinkmoon , this is all far from evidence , But is a lot more than we have against most other top 5 candidates .

One other thing , all of the victims visited the workhouse surgery in the week leading up to their deaths ..

moonbegger .

Hi moonbegger,interesting points however the most important question I think with these murders is why did they stop when viewing Mary Kelly's photo there is no doubt this person was a million light years from normal I can't just see him retiring a lot of people ignore this when proposing suspects.

[moonbegger]

The New York Sun London correspondent, Frank White, claimed that this is one of the reasons why he was suspected.

And the British Museum ( although not in Whitechapel ) is only a stone's throw from Cleveland street ! Tumblety's favorite source of entertainment .

moonbegger .

[mklhawley]

Btw, was Tumblety ever linked to the Philadelphian doctor who was trying to procure uteruses (uteri?) in Whitechapel at the time?

The New York Sun London correspondent, Frank White, claimed that this is one of the reasons why he was suspected.

[Mr Lucky]

Hi Harry D,

Well that's a kick in the nuts, Sam.

That reasoning applies to every crime ever committed (then and now), -should we just give up and never attempt to bring any one to justice ?

[Harry D]

To help visualise the scale we're up against, I created a document with 40,000 dots - each dot representing someone who might qualify as the Ripper, if we only knew more about them. The document runs to 11 pages, of which this image is the first:

The red circle on Page 1, bottom right, represents the "known known" reasonable suspects. The last page contains about 150 dots, which is about the number of suspects who have since been "exonerated" (or dismissed out of hand!), so we can ignore Page 11. Thus all the black dots, from Pages 1-10 inclusive, could be potential Rippers, and one of those dots quite possibly is him. Now, we would be incredibly fortunate if "his" dot was one of the ones in that little red circle, i.e. that he was one of the decent candidates whose name we already know. On the contrary, the odds seem very heavily weighted against that being the case... but he's out there somewhere, so keep scouring the census

Well that's a kick in the nuts, Sam.

"Mr. Nobody", is of course, my favourite for JTR. It's just been driving me crazy more than ever, how this case has never been solved, and the further we get from the event the less chance there is it ever will be. I've had sleepless nights going over all the possible scenarios, knowing that each and every one leads to a dead end. I guess this is just a rite of passage that all Ripperologists must go through at one stage or another!

RE: Tumblety. Not convinced. It's hard to believe that a six foot-something guy with an American accent and a handlebar moustache could conduct himself so inconspicuously. The police might have suspected him based on his history, but there's nothing to put him at the scene of the crimes (e.g. witness testimony).

Btw, was Tumblety ever linked to the Philadelphian doctor who was trying to procure uteruses (uteri?) in Whitechapel at the time?

[mklhawley]

Hi Lynn,

Thanks.

Mike