Rating The Suspects.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Version 18

(A) Age/physical health > 2 = no issue/1 = issues creating doubt.

(B) Access to murder sites > 2 = no issues/ 1 = within reasonable travel (train for e.g./ 0 = presence unproven/doubt

(C) Violence > 4 = murder of a woman with a knife/ 3 = murder of a woman (including the use of a knife) or murder with another weapon/ 2 = wounding a woman with a knife/ 1 = threatening a woman with a knife or physical violence using a weapon/ 0 = no violence (with knife or otherwise)

(D) Mental health issues > 2 = serious/violent/sexual/1 = other/0 = none known.

(E) Police interest > 2 = at the time (without exoneration)/1 = later (within 10 yrs and without exoneration)/0 = none known, not serious or exonerated.

(F) Hatred/dislike of women/prostitutes > 2 = yes/1 = link to prostitutes/0 = none known.

(G) Medical/anatomical knowledge (inc. animals) > 1 = yes/0 = none known

(H) Alcohol/drug issue > 1 = yes/0 = none known.



--- (A) (B) (C) (D) (E) (F) (G) (H) ---

13 = 2 - 2 - 3 - 2 - 2 - 1 - 0 - 1 : Kelly, James
11 = 2 - 2 - 3 - 0 - 2 - 1 - 0 - 1 : Bury, William Henry
11 = 2 - 2 - 1 - 2 - 2 - 1 - 1 - 0 : Puckridge, Oswald
10 = 2 - 0 - 4 - 1 - 1 - 2 - 0 - 0 : Deeming, Frederick Bailey
10 = 2 - 1 - 2 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 : Grainger, William Grant
09 = 2 - 2 - 2 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 : Cutbush, Thomas Hayne
09 = 2 - 2 - 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 : Hyams, Hyam
08 = 2 - 2 - 1 - 2 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Kosminski, Aaron (Aron Mordke Kozminski)
08 = 2 - 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 1 : Lechmere, George Capel Scudamore
08 = 2 - 2 - 1 - 1 - 0 - 1 - 1 - 0 : Barnado, Thomas John
08 = 2 - 2 - 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Pizer, John (Leather Apron)
08 = 2 - 2 - 1 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 : Cohen, David
07 = 1 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 2 - 2 - 1 - 0 : Tumblety, Francis
07 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 2 - 0 - 0 : Smith, G. Wentworth Bell
07 = 2 - 2 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 1 : Kidney, Michael
07 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 1 - 1 : Thompson, Francis
06 = 2 - 2 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 : Chapman, George (Severin Antonowicz Kłosowski)
06 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 : Levy, Jacob
06 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Druitt, Montague John
06 = 2 - 0 - 4 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Carl Feigenbaum
06 = 2 - 0 - 3 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Hendrik De Jong
05 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 : Barnett, Joseph
05 = 2 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 1 : Stephenson, Robert Donston (or Roslyn D'Onston)
05 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 : Sutton, Henry Gawen
05 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Buchan, Edward
05 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 : Williams, Dr. John
05 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Craig, Francis Spurzheim
05 = 2 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 1 : Maybrick, James
04 = 2 - 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Stephen, James Kenneth
04 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Bachert, Albert
04 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Cross, Charles (Charles Allen Lechmere)
04 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Hardiman, James
04 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Hutchinson, George
04 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Mann, Robert
04 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Le Grand, Charles
04 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Maybrick, Michael
04 = 1 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 : Gull, Sir William Withey
03 = 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 : Sickert, Walter Richard



Changes Made


Altered criteria’s (B) and (C)

Made amendments in line with the 2 new criteria (B) and (C)

New suspects added - Carl Feigenbaum and Hendrik De Jong

[Lewis C]

I would include him personally, because otherwise Deeming should be omitted too.

It still can't be definitively confirmed that Deeming was in England at the time of the Ripper murders.

If Feugenbaum is excluded, than Deeming must be disregarded also, based on the same parameters.

The fact that Feigenbaum was also a convicted killer, means that he should be included IMO.

I believe that Deeming can be proven to have been in England at the time, he just can't be proven to have been in the London area. But though I disagree with your example, I agree with your point. Sickert almost certainly wasn't in England at the time of some of the murders, so if Sickert can be included, Feigenbaum can be too. If anything, I'd say it's more likely that Feigenbaum was there than that Sickert was there for all of them.

[Fiver]

I get annoyed at myself for errors like this one but they have to be put right so thanks for pointing it out Fiver. I’ll change it for the next version,

I only caught it because the discussion of Henry Smith's suspect showed that was probably Puckridge, which means he had an alibi. There are so many suspects that no one knows everything about all of them and that's before we get to errors made by available sources or speculation that was presented as fact.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I believe that Deeming can be proven to have been in England at the time, he just can't be proven to have been in the London area. But though I disagree with your example, I agree with your point. Sickert almost certainly wasn't in England at the time of some of the murders, so if Sickert can be included, Feigenbaum can be too. If anything, I'd say it's more likely that Feigenbaum was there than that Sickert was there for all of them.

I’ll have a look into the Deeming question later today Lewis. I do have one or maybe two books on Deeming as a suspect as well as Morley’s book.

[The Rookie Detective]

I have always found it interesting as to why the police at New Scotland Yard chose to use the death mask of Deeming in reference to his being the face of Jack the Ripper.

His face was used for many years for visitors to the Black Museum, that in 1892 (when Deeming was hanged) was housed in the same basement; and only a few yards away from where the Whitehall Torso was found just 4 years earlier; on the same weekend as the "double event."

Eerie to say the least.

[Lewis C]

I’ll have a look into the Deeming question later today Lewis. I do have one or maybe two books on Deeming as a suspect as well as Morley’s book.

Herlock, is Roger Millington's book one of your Deeming books? It was thought at one time that Deeming wasn't in England or was in jail at the time of the murders, but Millington's book places Deeming in England at the time. On page 91 of Ripperologist 142, Paul Begg reviewed this book and endorsed both the book and the idea that Deeming was in England at the time.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Herlock, is Roger Millington's book one of your Deeming books? It was thought at one time that Deeming wasn't in England or was in jail at the time of the murders, but Millington's book places Deeming in England at the time. On page 91 of Ripperologist 142, Paul Begg reviewed this book and endorsed both the book and the idea that Deeming was in England at the time.

Hi Lewis,

I’ve got Millington’s book on the table next to me. I’ve also got Gary Linnell’s more recent book on Deeming. I’ve been wondering whether to re-read Millington it or just have a skim through. Morley’s suspect book certainly favours that he was likely in England.

[Lewis C]

Hi Lewis,

I’ve got Millington’s book on the table next to me. I’ve also got Gary Linnell’s more recent book on Deeming. I’ve been wondering whether to re-read Millington it or just have a skim through. Morley’s suspect book certainly favours that he was likely in England.

Fair enough, Herlock. I would think that for the purpose of this thread, it would be enough to just re-read the parts of the book that discuss where he was at the time of the Ripper murders. Unless you want to re-read the whole book just out of interest.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Version 18

(A) Age/physical health > 2 = no issue/1 = issues creating doubt.

(B) Access to murder sites > 2 = no issues/ 1 = within reasonable travel (train for e.g./ 0 = presence unproven/doubt

(C) Violence > 4 = murder of a woman with a knife/ 3 = murder of a woman (including the use of a knife) or murder with another weapon/ 2 = wounding a woman with a knife/ 1 = threatening a woman with a knife or physical violence using a weapon/ 0 = no violence (with knife or otherwise)

(D) Mental health issues > 2 = serious/violent/sexual/1 = other/0 = none known.

(E) Police interest > 2 = at the time (without exoneration)/1 = later (within 10 yrs and without exoneration)/0 = none known, not serious or exonerated.

(F) Hatred/dislike of women/prostitutes > 2 = yes/1 = link to prostitutes/0 = none known.

(G) Medical/anatomical knowledge (inc. animals) > 1 = yes/0 = none known

(H) Alcohol/drug issue > 1 = yes/0 = none known.



--- (A) (B) (C) (D) (E) (F) (G) (H) ---

13 = 2 - 2 - 3 - 2 - 2 - 1 - 0 - 1 : Kelly, James
11 = 2 - 2 - 3 - 0 - 2 - 1 - 0 - 1 : Bury, William Henry
11 = 2 - 2 - 1 - 2 - 2 - 1 - 1 - 0 : Puckridge, Oswald
10 = 2 - 0 - 4 - 1 - 1 - 2 - 0 - 0 : Deeming, Frederick Bailey
10 = 2 - 1 - 2 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 : Grainger, William Grant
09 = 2 - 2 - 2 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 : Cutbush, Thomas Hayne
09 = 2 - 2 - 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 : Hyams, Hyam
08 = 2 - 2 - 1 - 2 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Kosminski, Aaron (Aron Mordke Kozminski)
08 = 2 - 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 1 : Lechmere, George Capel Scudamore
08 = 2 - 2 - 1 - 1 - 0 - 1 - 1 - 0 : Barnado, Thomas John
08 = 2 - 2 - 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Pizer, John (Leather Apron)
08 = 2 - 2 - 1 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 : Cohen, David
07 = 1 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 2 - 2 - 1 - 0 : Tumblety, Francis
07 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 2 - 0 - 0 : Smith, G. Wentworth Bell
07 = 2 - 2 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 1 : Kidney, Michael
07 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 1 - 1 : Thompson, Francis
06 = 2 - 2 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 : Chapman, George (Severin Antonowicz Kłosowski)
06 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 : Levy, Jacob
06 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Druitt, Montague John
06 = 2 - 0 - 4 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Carl Feigenbaum
06 = 2 - 0 - 3 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Hendrik De Jong
05 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 : Barnett, Joseph
05 = 2 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 1 : Stephenson, Robert Donston (or Roslyn D'Onston)
05 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 : Sutton, Henry Gawen
05 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Buchan, Edward
05 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 : Williams, Dr. John
05 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Craig, Francis Spurzheim
05 = 2 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 1 : Maybrick, James
04 = 2 - 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Stephen, James Kenneth
04 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Bachert, Albert
04 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Cross, Charles (Charles Allen Lechmere)
04 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Hardiman, James
04 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Hutchinson, George
04 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Mann, Robert
04 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Le Grand, Charles
04 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Maybrick, Michael
04 = 1 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 : Gull, Sir William Withey
03 = 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 : Sickert, Walter Richard



Changes Made


Altered criteria’s (B) and (C)

Made amendments in line with the 2 new criteria (B) and (C)

New suspects added - Carl Feigenbaum and Hendrik De Jong

I just realised that I forgot to make the alteration to Puckridge on criteria (E) as suggested by Fiver. It will be changed for next time.

[Lewis C]

Le Grand should have at least one more point. He has a 0 in column F, when all that's needed to get one point there is a link to prostitutes. Le Grand was very linked to prostitutes. He could even get a 2 there for Hatred/dislike of women/prostitutes. I can't say for sure that he hated them, but he certainly treated them badly.

He should probably also get a 1 for physical violence using a weapon. See pp. 27-31 of Tom Wescott's article about Le Grand in Issue 2 of The Casebook Examiner (June 2010). It seems he attacked women on several occasions. The article summarizes reasons for suspicion against Le Grand as a Ripper suspect on pages 63 and 64. Maybe there are additional points besides those I've mentioned.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Le Grand should have at least one more point. He has a 0 in column F, when all that's needed to get one point there is a link to prostitutes. Le Grand was very linked to prostitutes. He could even get a 2 there for Hatred/dislike of women/prostitutes. I can't say for sure that he hated them, but he certainly treated them badly.

He should probably also get a 1 for physical violence using a weapon. See pp. 27-31 of Tom Wescott's article about Le Grand in Issue 2 of The Casebook Examiner (June 2010). It seems he attacked women on several occasions. The article summarizes reasons for suspicion against Le Grand as a Ripper suspect on pages 63 and 64. Maybe there are additional points besides those I've mentioned.

I’ll look into it tomorrow Lewis. Cheers.

[GBinOz]

Hi Herlock,

I believe that modern research by Napper has statements by Deeming's family that he was living in Birkenhead at the time, but taking frequent rail trips to London. Apparently the rail link, which was new at the time, made that a relatively easy trip. That and the reports of him being acquainted with Eddowes and being in London on the night of the double event might warrant a rating of 1 in category B?

Cheers, George

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Herlock,

I believe that modern research by Napper has statements by Deeming's family that he was living in Birkenhead at the time, but taking frequent rail trips to London. Apparently the rail link, which was new at the time, made that a relatively easy trip. That and the reports of him being acquainted with Eddowes and being in London on the night of the double event might warrant a rating of 1 in category B?

Cheers, George

Hi George,

I have to say that I’m a bit stuck on this one. Earlier I’d say that I had the books by Millington and Linnell but I’ve just checked my books twice and I don’t appear to have the Linnell book which is strange because I do have a few notes that I made after reading it. I can only assume that I must have picked it up on one of my fairly rare visits to the library. I do have the Millington book though and I’ve also checked the Deeming section in Morley’s suspect book.

Morley mentions that it has long been accepted that Deeming was in South Africa at the time of the murders but former Scotland Yard detective Robert Napper believed that he may have been back in England (without telling us what led him to suspect that.

Roger Millington does provide a chronology in the back of his book. For the relevant part of 1888 he lists:

May 16th - Flight from Durban to England (using the name Lawson/Larsen)
Summer - Seen on racecourses (using the name Wilson)
Stock Exchange fraud (using the name Lord Kerr [Millington adds a ?])
Woos a widow in Beverley (using the name Lawson)
Unknown date in September - Marries a woman in Devonport (using the name Lawson)
September 27th - Leaves Devonport for London (using the name Lawson)
September 29th - With a dressmaker in East End (using the name Lawson)
September 30th - Confesses to Double Event (using the name Dr J Duncan)
November 7th - Leaves Devonport for London (using the name Lawson)
Early 1889 - With family in Cape Town (using the name Frederick Deeming)

According to my annoyingly scanty notes on Linnell has Deeming and his family leaving for SA in the first week of 1888 and getting back to Birkenhead on 28th or 29th September.