Rating The Suspects.

[Fiver]

Hi chubs,

I set the category to only include mental health issues which were proven/diagnosed. Like spending time in an asylum. I wanted to distinguish between, if you like, mad and bad even though it’s difficult to tell and I’m certainly not qualified to judge.

What about self-claimed?

The Prisoner, in his defence, said that he had suffered from sunstroke in India, and that sometimes he was not responsible for his actions" - George Capel Scudamore Lechmere

[Herlock Sholmes]

Yes, I get that.

In which case, I'll give him a diagnosis - the bloke was mad as a hatter...

...2 points, please

Nice try chubbs.

[chubbs]

Hi chubs,

I set the category to only include mental health issues which were proven/diagnosed. Like spending time in an asylum. I wanted to distinguish between, if you like, mad and bad even though it’s difficult to tell and I’m certainly not qualified to judge.

Yes, I get that.

In which case, I'll give him a diagnosis - the bloke was mad as a hatter...

...2 points, please

[Herlock Sholmes]

I've only just seen this thread. What an excellent idea. I must admit that currently I've only read the last 3 posts and the first one, so my next question may already have been addressed elsewhere (apologies if it has)...

Given the fact that William Bury strangulated his wife, sliced her belly open, performed other mutilations (including to the genital area), broke major bones in order to squeeze her body into a small box, lived with the corpse for several days, then went to the police station to inform them of the 'suicide', I'd suggest that he may at least have been a psychopath? Some may claim that his behaviour was mysogyny but I believe it was more than that. Nobody 'in their right mind' does what he did. Others may argue that psychopathy isn't a mental illness, it's a character trait. I'd agree to some extent, but when it spills over into murder and mutilation Id argue that it has gone beyond being just a character type and slipped into the murky depths of being mental illness.

Can someone please explain to me why Bury has a zero in column D, 'mental health issues'? He should have at least a '1', imho.


EDIT: Actually, he should probably have a '2' - "serious/violent/sexual"

Hi chubs,

I set the category to only include mental health issues which were proven/diagnosed. Like spending time in an asylum. I wanted to distinguish between, if you like, mad and bad even though it’s difficult to tell and I’m certainly not qualified to judge.

[chubbs]

I've only just seen this thread. What an excellent idea. I must admit that currently I've only read the last 3 posts and the first one, so my next question may already have been addressed elsewhere (apologies if it has)...

Given the fact that William Bury strangulated his wife, sliced her belly open, performed other mutilations (including to the genital area), broke major bones in order to squeeze her body into a small box, lived with the corpse for several days, then went to the police station to inform them of the 'suicide', I'd suggest that he may at least have been a psychopath? Some may claim that his behaviour was mysogyny but I believe it was more than that. Nobody 'in their right mind' does what he did. Others may argue that psychopathy isn't a mental illness, it's a character trait. I'd agree to some extent, but when it spills over into murder and mutilation Id argue that it has gone beyond being just a character type and slipped into the murky depths of being mental illness.

Can someone please explain to me why Bury has a zero in column D, 'mental health issues'? He should have at least a '1', imho.


EDIT: Actually, he should probably have a '2' - "serious/violent/sexual"

[Herlock Sholmes]

Amendment #17

(A) Age/physical health > 2 = no issue/1 = issues creating doubt.

(B) Location/access to murder sites > 2 = no issues/1 = reasonable travel/0 = serious doubt.

(C) Violence > 4 = killed woman (non-relative) with knife/3 = killed female relative with knife/

2 = violence with a knife/1 = violence without a knife/0 = no known violence.

(D) Mental health issues > 2 = serious/violent/sexual/1 = other/0 = none known.

(E) Police interest > 2 = at the time (without exoneration)/1 = later (within 10 yrs and without exoneration)/0 = none known or not serious.

(F) Hatred/dislike of women/prostitutes > 2 = yes/1 = link to prostitutes/0 = none known.

(G) Medical/anatomical knowledge (inc. animals) > 1 = yes/0 = none known

(H) Alcohol/drug issue > 1 = yes/0 = none known.


^ means that a suspect has moved up the table after the latest amendment

* means that a suspect has moved down the table after the latest amendment


--- (A) (B) (C) (D) (E) (F) (G) (H) ---

13 = 2 - 2 - 3 - 2 - 2 - 1 - 0 - 1 : Kelly, James
11 = 2 - 2 - 3 - 0 - 2 - 1 - 0 - 1 : Bury, William Henry
11 = 2 - 1 - 4 - 1 - 1 - 2 - 0 - 0 : Deeming, Frederick Bailey
10 = 2 - 1 - 2 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 : Grainger, William Grant
09 = 2 - 2 - 2 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 : Cutbush, Thomas Hayne
09 = 2 - 2 - 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 : Hyams, Hyam
09 = 2 - 2 - 1 - 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Puckridge, Oswald
08 = 2 - 2 - 1 - 2 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Kosminski, Aaron (Aron Mordke Kozminski)
08 = 2 - 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 1 : Lechmere, George Capel Scudamore
08 = 2 - 2 - 1 - 1 - 0 - 1 - 1 - 0 : Barnado, Thomas John
08 = 2 - 2 - 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Pizer, John (Leather Apron)
08 = 2 - 2 - 1 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 : Cohen, David
07 = 1 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 2 - 2 - 1 - 0 : Tumblety, Francis
07 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 2 - 0 - 0 : Smith, G. Wentworth Bell
07 = 2 - 2 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 1 : Kidney, Michael
06 = 2 - 2 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 : Chapman, George (Severin Antonowicz Kłosowski)
06 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 1 - 0 : Thompson, Francis
06 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 : Levy, Jacob
05 = 2 - 1 - 0 - 1 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Druitt, Montague John
05 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 : Barnett, Joseph
05 = 2 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 1 : Stephenson, Robert Donston (or Roslyn D'Onston)
05 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 : Sutton, Henry Gawen
05 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Buchan, Edward
05 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 : Williams, Dr. John
05 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Craig, Francis Spurzheim
05 = 2 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 1 : Maybrick, James ^
04 = 2 - 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Stephen, James Kenneth
04 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Bachert, Albert
04 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Cross, Charles (Charles Allen Lechmere)
04 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Hardiman, James
04 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Hutchinson, George
04 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Mann, Robert
04 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Le Grand, Charles
04 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Maybrick, Michael
04 = 1 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 : Gull, Sir William Withey
03 = 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 : Sickert, Walter Richard

Changes

Added a point to James Maybrick for ‘links to prostitutes.’ I’ve been doing some Maybrick reading recently and was reminded that he was known to have frequented a brothel in the USA.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Herlock


Is there a chance you can add a point for Bachert for Alcohol use?

He was reported during court proceedings to have been a regular drinker at a particular pub and often found under the influence of alcohol.

It appears that when his world began to unravel and he was essentially ousted as having been a fraud; he turned to alcohol.

I will try and find the data to corroborate what I'm saying.

It makes virtually no difference to his validity as a potential person of interest, but for completeness I fell he needs a point added for Alcohol use.

I will locate the data I am referring to, and get back to you once I have recalled it.


p.s. not sure why I quoted your post Abby; I meant to write a direct message on the thread, my apologies.

No problem RD. I’ve no problem at all in adding ‘alcohol’ for any suspect as long as we can see that it was more than just a ‘liked a pint or three now and then’ kind of thing.

[The Rookie Detective]

lol no worries.

on a seperate note.. as you know im big on proximity to victim/ murder site. i would just add 3 for strong proximity in that category(location) so for example, barnett, lech hutch etc would receive a 3 in that one.

Herlock


Is there a chance you can add a point for Bachert for Alcohol use?

He was reported during court proceedings to have been a regular drinker at a particular pub and often found under the influence of alcohol.

It appears that when his world began to unravel and he was essentially ousted as having been a fraud; he turned to alcohol.

I will try and find the data to corroborate what I'm saying.

It makes virtually no difference to his validity as a potential person of interest, but for completeness I fell he needs a point added for Alcohol use.

I will locate the data I am referring to, and get back to you once I have recalled it.


p.s. not sure why I quoted your post Abby; I meant to write a direct message on the thread, my apologies.

[Abby Normal]

Amendment #16


(A) Age/physical health > 2 = no issue/1 = issues creating doubt.
(B) Location/access to murder sites > 2 = no issues/1 = reasonable travel/0 = serious doubt.
(C) Violence > 4 = killed woman (non-relative) with knife/3 = killed female relative with knife/
2 = violence with a knife/1 = violence without a knife/0 = no known violence.
(D) Mental health issues > 2 = serious/violent/sexual/1 = other/0 = none known.
(E) Police interest > 2 = at the time (without exoneration)/1 = later (within 10 yrs and without exoneration)/0 = none known or not serious.
(F) Hatred/dislike of women/prostitutes > 2 = yes/1 = link to prostitutes/0 = none known.
(G) Medical/anatomical knowledge (inc. animals) > 1 = yes/0 = none known
(H) Alcohol/drug issue > 1 = yes/0 = none known.

^ means that a suspect has moved up the table after the latest amendment

* means that a suspect has moved down the table after the latest amendment


--- (A) (B) (C) (D) (E) (F) (G) (H) ---

13 = 2 - 2 - 3 - 2 - 2 - 1 - 0 - 1 : Kelly, James
11 = 2 - 2 - 3 - 0 - 2 - 1 - 0 - 1 : Bury, William Henry
11 = 2 - 1 - 4 - 1 - 1 - 2 - 0 - 0 : Deeming, Frederick Bailey
10 = 2 - 1 - 2 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 : Grainger, William Grant
09 = 2 - 2 - 2 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 : Cutbush, Thomas Hayne
09 = 2 - 2 - 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 : Hyams, Hyam
09 = 2 - 2 - 1 - 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Puckridge, Oswald
08 = 2 - 2 - 1 - 2 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Kosminski, Aaron (Aron Mordke Kozminski)
08 = 2 - 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 1 : Lechmere, George Capel Scudamore
08 = 2 - 2 - 1 - 1 - 0 - 1 - 1 - 0 : Barnado, Thomas John
08 = 2 - 2 - 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Pizer, John (Leather Apron)
08 = 2 - 2 - 1 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 : Cohen, David ^
07 = 1 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 2 - 2 - 1 - 0 : Tumblety, Francis
07 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 2 - 0 - 0 : Smith, G. Wentworth Bell
07 = 2 - 2 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 1 : Kidney, Michael
06 = 2 - 2 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 : Chapman, George (Severin Antonowicz Kłosowski)
06 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 1 - 0 : Thompson, Francis
06 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 : Levy, Jacob
05 = 2 - 1 - 0 - 1 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Druitt, Montague John
05 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 : Barnett, Joseph
05 = 2 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 1 : Stephenson, Robert Donston (or Roslyn D'Onston)
05 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 : Sutton, Henry Gawen
05 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Buchan, Edward
05 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 : Williams, Dr. John
05 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Craig, Francis Spurzheim
04 = 2 - 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Stephen, James Kenneth
04 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Bachert, Albert
04 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Cross, Charles (Charles Allen Lechmere)
04 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Hardiman, James
04 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Hutchinson, George
04 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Mann, Robert
04 = 2 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 : Maybrick, James
04 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Le Grand, Charles
04 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Maybrick, Michael
04 = 1 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 : Gull, Sir William Withey
03 = 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 : Sickert, Walter Richard

Changes


Thanks to CF Leon for reminding me why I’d originally given Cohen a 1 for (F) I’ve put it back.

Sorry Abby, it was hopeless cutting and pasting by me which caused Gull and Sickert to be left out. I have to put them back. (I know what you mean though)

Text changes made to Cutbush and Buchan thanks to Geddy.

lol no worries.

on a seperate note.. as you know im big on proximity to victim/ murder site. i would just add 3 for strong proximity in that category(location) so for example, barnett, lech hutch etc would receive a 3 in that one.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Amendment #16


(A) Age/physical health > 2 = no issue/1 = issues creating doubt.
(B) Location/access to murder sites > 2 = no issues/1 = reasonable travel/0 = serious doubt.
(C) Violence > 4 = killed woman (non-relative) with knife/3 = killed female relative with knife/
2 = violence with a knife/1 = violence without a knife/0 = no known violence.
(D) Mental health issues > 2 = serious/violent/sexual/1 = other/0 = none known.
(E) Police interest > 2 = at the time (without exoneration)/1 = later (within 10 yrs and without exoneration)/0 = none known or not serious.
(F) Hatred/dislike of women/prostitutes > 2 = yes/1 = link to prostitutes/0 = none known.
(G) Medical/anatomical knowledge (inc. animals) > 1 = yes/0 = none known
(H) Alcohol/drug issue > 1 = yes/0 = none known.

^ means that a suspect has moved up the table after the latest amendment

* means that a suspect has moved down the table after the latest amendment


--- (A) (B) (C) (D) (E) (F) (G) (H) ---

13 = 2 - 2 - 3 - 2 - 2 - 1 - 0 - 1 : Kelly, James
11 = 2 - 2 - 3 - 0 - 2 - 1 - 0 - 1 : Bury, William Henry
11 = 2 - 1 - 4 - 1 - 1 - 2 - 0 - 0 : Deeming, Frederick Bailey
10 = 2 - 1 - 2 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 : Grainger, William Grant
09 = 2 - 2 - 2 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 : Cutbush, Thomas Hayne
09 = 2 - 2 - 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 : Hyams, Hyam
09 = 2 - 2 - 1 - 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Puckridge, Oswald
08 = 2 - 2 - 1 - 2 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Kosminski, Aaron (Aron Mordke Kozminski)
08 = 2 - 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 1 : Lechmere, George Capel Scudamore
08 = 2 - 2 - 1 - 1 - 0 - 1 - 1 - 0 : Barnado, Thomas John
08 = 2 - 2 - 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Pizer, John (Leather Apron)
08 = 2 - 2 - 1 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 : Cohen, David ^
07 = 1 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 2 - 2 - 1 - 0 : Tumblety, Francis
07 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 2 - 0 - 0 : Smith, G. Wentworth Bell
07 = 2 - 2 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 1 : Kidney, Michael
06 = 2 - 2 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 : Chapman, George (Severin Antonowicz Kłosowski)
06 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 1 - 0 : Thompson, Francis
06 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 : Levy, Jacob
05 = 2 - 1 - 0 - 1 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Druitt, Montague John
05 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 : Barnett, Joseph
05 = 2 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 1 : Stephenson, Robert Donston (or Roslyn D'Onston)
05 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 : Sutton, Henry Gawen
05 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Buchan, Edward
05 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 : Williams, Dr. John
05 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Craig, Francis Spurzheim
04 = 2 - 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Stephen, James Kenneth
04 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Bachert, Albert
04 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Cross, Charles (Charles Allen Lechmere)
04 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Hardiman, James
04 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Hutchinson, George
04 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Mann, Robert
04 = 2 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 : Maybrick, James
04 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Le Grand, Charles
04 = 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Maybrick, Michael
04 = 1 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 : Gull, Sir William Withey
03 = 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 : Sickert, Walter Richard

Changes


Thanks to CF Leon for reminding me why I’d originally given Cohen a 1 for (F) I’ve put it back.

Sorry Abby, it was hopeless cutting and pasting by me which caused Gull and Sickert to be left out. I have to put them back. (I know what you mean though)

Text changes made to Cutbush and Buchan thanks to Geddy.

[Herlock Sholmes]

i see all characters associated from the royal conspiracy have been removed. good job!! maybrick should at least come off as well. these type of joke suspects have taken up too much space as it is.

Actually I didn’t know that I’d done that Abby. A mistake in cutting and pasting yet again! How am I still doing this?

[Abby Normal]

i see all characters associated from the royal conspiracy have been removed. good job!! maybrick should at least come off as well. these type of joke suspects have taken up too much space as it is.

[Geddy2112]

The Cutbush, Thomas Hayne needs a = instead of a - and Buchan, Edward needs a 'space' after the 1 as it's doing my chuffing OCD right in... thanks.

[C. F. Leon]

Amendment #14

...

F - I don’t know why I’ve given Cohen a 1 here? Reading back I see no link to prostitutes so I’m removing the point - obviously if someone can refresh my memory as to why the point should remain I’ll reinstate it.

...

On your Point #F, above, IIRC one of the Podcasts mentions that Cohen was arrested in a raid in a brothel.

[C. F. Leon]

I just noticed…

...

I didn’t know that there were two Pizer’s? I haven’t a clue how that happened? And with different points? I’ll put it right tomorrow.

The second Pizer with the higher rating must be the evil twin. (Or the one from the Mirror Universe!)